He can move more freely since he shaved that neck beard!

That's just a funny picture :)

SI

A nice mug shot of Kane.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200.../patrick.kane/

I understand the Leafs are really excited about the Swedish kid in goal but didn't they give Justin Pogge away awfully cheaply? Wasn't he expected to be the goalie of the future only a year ago? They're putting a lot of faith in a rookie netminder if you ask me.

Looks like it could be an interesting case:

Cabbie in Kane case had no valid license : Home: The Buffalo News

You mean the next Ron Francis?

They didn't make all bad moves. They got a serviceable player in Kent Manderville for Billy Tibbetts.

Looks like this was updated to now he has a license....:popcorn:

Cabbie in Kane case had valid license, his attorney says : Home: The Buffalo News

Pogge was the goalie of the future two years ago. He had an iffy year in the AHL in 2007-08, and was benched in the playoffs. Last year he was pretty bad again, was given a few chances to play in the NHL, and was just awful. There was talk about him having serious problems with his technique.

In one sense the Leafs gave up on him for not much return (max of a third round pick if he plays 30 games). On the other hand, they did get something and if they feel like he has no future in Toronto I guess it's better than nothing.

Keep in mind the Leafs have a new goalie coach who's very highly regarded. I'd assume he watched the tapes of Pogge and his impression wasn't positive.

I hope this goes well for him.

Fleury, 41 and sober, attempting NHL comeback - NHL News - FOX Sports on MSN

I'd love to see him as a Leaf...we all know he is Truculent enough to be a Burke player.

My favorite part of the article...

So what you're saying is that it is a lot like the Leafs ;)

/ducks

SI

Yeah, but only if they were also using wooden skates. :lol:

Yahoo power rankings:

Power rankings: Chasing the summer blahs - NHL - Yahoo! Sports

Dola

He says this about the Islanders:


and this about the Coyotes:

He loses points for suggesting Carolina adopt a Whalers throwback uniform. No, that would be disgusting.

Couple of moves by the NY Rangers

Report: Rangers add Prospal, Messier - NHL.com - 2009 NHL Offseason News

Surprised it took this long for them to bring Messier into the fold. I would imagine he is going to be groomed for the next head coaching position with the team, and then eventually as the next GM.

Wings looking at Bertuzzi....again?

Report: Wings talking to Bertuzzi - NHL.com - 2009 NHL Offseason News

Makes sense actually. Bertuzzi is the only free-agent right-winger remaining who's worth a damn that fits inside the 2m in cap space the Wings have to work with.

Hm. I wonder if the Flyers are still thinking about going after a 1-2 mil forward (after finding a way to dump Randy Jones or Matt Carle). Bertuzzi was probably near the top of the list for desirable candidates, in as much as he'd be a near exact replacement for Knuble.

Sorry but have to disagree with you on this one. I would take Knuble over Bertuzzi any day. Bertuzzi is not physical since his back injury, is universally loathed, and generally brings very little to the NHL table. In fact, he put up 44 points last season with Calgary and was still a -13 on the ice. I am a lifelong Wings fan and can't stand this guy, so this news saddens me. However, I will make the best of it and hope he gets hurt and never plays again.

I agree...I really liked Knuble. But I have to agree with the Flyers decision to let him walk. His productivity tailed at the end of last season, he looked very slow against the Pens and was pretty much a non factor. They were willing to give him the 2.8 mil he wanted but for only one year, and Knuble said he was going to give the Flyers a "discount" to stay with them. However, I can't blame him for taking the extra year with Washington.

Yup, I'm definitely still rooting against the Red Wings this year.

Big surprise:

Grand jury dismisses felony charge against Patrick Kane, but indicts Chicago Blackhawks star on lesser charges - ESPN Chicago

Canes make a free agent pick-up...

Stephane Yelle agrees to one-year deal with Carolina Hurricanes - ESPN

Can't hurt, that's for sure. At the very least he can offer some leadership. One of the few Avalanche players I didn't loathe.

I liked Yelle when he was on the Bruins. He's a good solid player and does a great job killing penalties.

Yelle's a bargain, that's for sure.

He's quite good at faceoffs, as well. Do they still have Cullen? Between Cullen, Brind'Amour, and Yelle, they'll never lose a faceoff.

I'm not surpised. Living in the Buffalo/Niagara area, the cabbie and his lawyer have sort of changed their story a little. I get the feeling some of the information is still not being released.

Yes, we still have all of them. Canes fans are pretty happy with the pickup.

Outside of Staal and maybe Ward, we don't have a superstar player, but this is probably the deepest team I can recall having. It's not Detroit rolling four lines, but by our normal standards, we can put an awful lot of combinations out there now. It'll also allow what's turned into a pretty good batch of solid young players to gel this year in Albany with the expectation that the roster will probably go through some heavy turnover in the next couple of seasons as the older vets retire or others finish out their contracts, at which point the Albany kids will become the next core of the team with Staal and Ward.

I'm getting pretty excited about the upcoming season right now. :)

Heatley speaks:

Dany Heatley discusses his request for trade from Ottawa Senators - ESPN

I actually have more respect for him now that he has come out and said a few things. Even if he hasn't said much, at least he explained his reasoning for a trade request, and more importantly, he still plans on showing up for tc instead of holding out like a lot of other athletes seem to do these days.

So, I am wondering. Is this maybe an Ottawa problem? I look at the club's short history and it is not pretty. Yashin played/plays with no heart. Daigle played with no heart. Redden seems to be washed up upon leaving the Canadian capital. The only two guys whom seem to be relatively happy there are Chris Neil and Daniel Alfredsson.

Ottawa has to be one of the biggest underachievers in the NHL in the past half-decade.

Thoughts?

He didn't say anything. He had a gun to his head from Team Canada, so he read a statement, gave 25-minutes on non-answers, and then got out of there. He didn't shed any light on anything at all.

He did what he had to do, but you shouldn't respect him any more for it.

Could be, but I am trying to see the good in him. I hate seeing guys with so much talent let it go to waste.

I am beginning to think, though, that Ottawa is the new place to go and die for NHL players.

Ottawa problem? Because players like Yashin and Daigle don't live up to expectations...in Ottawa or elsewhere? Huh? And Redden was washed up before he left...oddly enough, right around the time Chara left...hmmm.

And as for being underachievers...well, they missed the playoffs for the first time this past season after 11 straight visits. I guess not winning the Cup during that time could be underachieving but, really, I think there are several other teams that would fit that label much better.

As for Heatley, well, who cares.

09-10 THN Yearbook came in the mail today-

EAST
1 Boston
2 Washington
3 Pittsburgh
4 Philadelphia
5 New Jersey
6 Carolina
7 Buffalo
8 Montreal
9 Ottawa
10 Tampa Bay
11 Toronto
12 Florida
13 NY Rangers
14 Atlanta
15 NY Islanders

WEST

1 San Jose
2 Chicago
3 Vancouver
4 Detroit
5 Calgary
6 Anaheim
7 Dallas
8 Columbus
9 St Louis
10 Nashville
11 Edmonton
12 LA
13 Minnesota
14 Colorado
15 Phoenix


And their pick to win it all--

The Flyers!?!?! WTF

The issue contains all the usual features-- line/parings prjections, rookie outlook, etc-- and a new one this season: sort of a hedge on their ranking about, projecting a best case/worst case scenario, and what would happen to reach that.

Pittsburgh for example is projected as 3rd in the East, but could be 1st if "Crosby hits 40, and Staal reaches rookie promise", but could fall to 6th if "Gas tank is empty, team D takes a step back".

Any interest in a team, post here, I'll try my best to fill all requests

Washington, please.

I don't know whether to be happy or unhappy that they picked the Flyers to win. I can't remember the last time that happened. We will be legit contenders with Pronger, but it's hard to predict how injuries or other issues will impact the playoffs at this point.

Caps

2nd in the East
1st - if goaltending and team D improve
5th- if injuries take their toll and the offense sputters

As far as the projected lineup, couple things to note:

Theodore listed as the starter ahead of Varlamov
Knuble penciled in on the 1st line with Ovy and Backstrom
Alzner listed in the top 6 ahead of Jurcina
Nylander (4th) listed ahead of Steckel (5th) at center on the depth chart (I don't get that one at all)

Most of that looks dead on except Nylander who's probably somewhere around 74th on the depth chart.

I think Varly has to start the season as the starter after his work in the playoffs. He has had problems with conditioning, so I'd expect Theodore to play more than most backups. Of course I'm not sure where Theodore will be mentally this season after the horrible death of his child last week.

The Flyers?!? Really?!?

Anaheim please?

Why is that so shocking? Just because Emery is an unknown quantity doesn't mean they weren't one stupid fight away from taking the Pens to game 7 and gave them the hardest time aside from the Wings.

+ Pronger, + Laperriere, + full season of Briere/Giroux + Emery/Boucher heavily outweighs - Knuble, Lupul, and Biron/Niitty.

Ducks

3rd - if Koivu and Selanne rekindle Finnish magic
9th - if goaltending falters and youngsters stall

Lineup notes-

Hiller listed as the starter
Whitney paired with Niedermayer on top pair
Sbisa on 3rd pair, and listed as top prospect
Crusher Christensen listed 4th on the LW depth chart

They even said it in THN. Will Emery lead the Flyers to the Cup? No, almost definitely not. But he won't have to, just like Osgood didn't have to do jack to get the Wings to the finals the past two years.

It is mainly hard to believe because of Emery. Yeah, he's as, or more, talented then Biron. But nobody knows what to expect from him. It's not hard to say they downgraded in goal, which was their weakest spot to begin with.

And I love Talbot as much as any other Pens fan, but losing a fight to Carcillo didn't let in 4 straight goals.

I know. I actually get irked when people point that out as the reason the Flyers lost - they clearly lost because they allowed all the goals (but you have to admit that did mark a complete change in the attitudes of the teams during that game).

And as I said in the post above yours, Emery probably won't have to lead the Flyers to the Cup. If they had Pronger last year, things would've been different. None of the Flyers D-men pushed anyone anywhere. That won't be the case anymore.

And if Emery blows up, I really don't mind Boucher. He's had playoff experience, been to the conference finals, and has been pretty good in backup duty over the past few years.

I think you are selling Osgood a little short. Sure, he didn't have to carry that team to 1-0 wins, but he was infinitely better in the postseason than regular season last year.

To win 16, you goalie needs to steal you one or two games. Fleury did it game 4 vs Philly, and was really good games 6 and 7 vs Detroit.

So best shot is lowest point total among division champs? I can see that, except I actually think, top to bottom, the Pacific is stronger than the Northwest, and I think the Pacific champ will end up at #2.

I think the Ducks have made a number of key relatively under the radar additions (Koivu, Lupul, Boynton, Sbisa, plus full seasons from the trade guys and from Ryan) that are going to make them a very competitive squad right from the start.

I'm actually not certain Sbisa makes the team. Ducks have a lot of candidates on D, and maybe 2-3 spots open, and that's it.

I'm not so sure Whitney pairs with Niedermayer. Those are the two best puck moving D-men. If Sbisa makes the team, he might actually pair with Niedermayer. The staff has always been big on pairing good young players with Niedermayer, so they can learn from him.

Christensen's spot sounds about right. Some of the team's additions have really pushed him back on the depth chart.

Right, well, Emery is certainly an unknown quantity, but it's not like he doesn't have the potential to steal a game or two. Been to the cup finals, put up very good numbers on his KHL team, we'll see how it goes.

But the Flyers return 4 30 goal scorers, throwing in Briere and Giroux into that mix as well. Laperriere comes in as a guy who can log major minutes on the PK and give Richards and Carter a break so that they are fresher for PPs and even strength time. He and Pronger bring valuable experience, and there's nothing in the past couple of years that suggests Pronger won't still be a force for 1-2 more seasons before his legs start catching up with him.

All in all it should be a fun battle of Pennsylvania for the division title.

devils please?

Do we really want to know? :)

Some people just never learn...

Also, don't forget to add how Osgood didn't have to do "jack" in 1998 as well.

'98 and the past two season are quite different animals. Don't even try to act like Osgood is anything close to what he used to be. The team that was in front of him the past two years was so good defensively. That's the correlation I'm trying to make - the Flyers now have Pronger and Timonen, two all-stars, a guy who should have won the Selke last year (Richards), and other good defensive forwards as well.

I'm not saying Osgood didn't turn in any good efforts the past two seasons in the playoffs, but c'mon. Most goalies would have been fine back there, and that's the case I'm making for Emery.

The Flyers have a ways to go in terms of chemistry and on-ice product this year before I can seriously compare them to the Wings' teams of the past two years, but it's a similar goalie situation, I'd say.

Devils

2nd - if Rolston hits 30 and Brodeur stays healthy
8th - if Lemaires style stiffles rising stars

Pelley centering 3rd line, replacing Madden
Letourneau-Leblond and Bergfors listed as on the 4th line (2 rookies)
Tedenby listed as #1 prospect, but shown as NHL ready 10-11 season

This one really jumps out as me. Future Watch team grade: 30th out of 30. Shocking to see from a NJ team that always seems to have guys fit in. I would expect none of these guys are huge names, but they always have guys who fit the roles needed as solid NHL players.

And Lou is considered one of the best talent evaluators/drafters in the league, surprising.

Well, when 4-5 of these guys turn into solid NHL players, he'll prove he still knows better than other teams scouts, right?

I am not sure I am following you. Osgood isn't anything close to what he used to be? This is despite the fact that he had better save percentage and goals against in 07 and 08 than he did in '98 and the fact that the team in front of him in '98 was arguably better in comparison to the rest of the league than either of the last two seasons given the lack of parity via the cap.


Tell that to CuJo, Hasek or Conklin.

That's the misconception that kills me. That because the Wings are so good up front and along the blueline that you can plug any old goalie in there and the Wings would just be as successful. That's really not the case at all. Osgood isn't one of the most talented goalies in the league or the best, but he fits the Wings teams very well. The same cannot be said for all equally talented goalies or more talented.

Emery could be adequate enough for the Flyers, but just saying that Osgood proves that a great team + adequate goalie is enough to win the Cup/get to the finals is sorely mistaken.

I realize that Osgood had better stats the past two seasons than he had in '98. He made the saves he should and didn't really let in any bad goals.

He seemed to up his game from the regular season when he truthfully did not play consistently well. But is that a mark of him being a clutch performer, or a reflection of how different the playoff game is from the regular season game?

I still think the Wings would have been successful the past two seasons without Osgood going the whole way. I discount Cujo and Hasek because they are at the end of their careers and got injured a lot. I know Osgood is in a similar age range, but he's been a bit more durable. I can't make an honest statement about Conklin because I didn't really get to see him play for you guys.

Are you saying that Osgood does not prove the great team + adequate goalie statement because you believe he's still more than an adequate goalie?

I hate the Red Wings, but comparing Ray Emery to Chris Osgood is pretty goddamn funny. Osgood's exile involved having to play in Long Island and taking mediocre St. Louis teams to the playoffs. Dude's got 3 cup rings, 2 of which he started for, and was a goal or two away from a 4th.

Emery spent last season in Russia because everyone in North America thought he was too lazy and bat-shit insane to play hockey.

Hopefully he gets in a fight with Pronger and they both get hurt.

I'm comparing the teams in front of them much more than the goaltenders themselves, if you read my posts.

And that's really adding to the conversation, cool.

I really hope Emery has a decent season so some people can bite their tongues a few times. Yeah, he acted like an immature idiot when he was in Ottawa. But he was the first to admit he let things get to him and did a lot of growing up by being forced to play in Russia.

There's nothing wrong with a goaltender with a little belly fire. Remember Hextall? It's very wishful thinking for Emery to come close to Hextall, but I'm certainly ready to give him a chance. And you can't really argue that he won't be in a position to succeed with the team that he has in front of him.

Emory was also kicked out of the KHL too was'nt he?For fighting with the trainer.

I'm not sure that he was kicked out - that particular team may not have wanted him back. But there are rumors that a racial slur was directed his way, not that I'm condoning his actions. I'm just going to cross my fingers and hope for Hextall v2.0. :D

It's shocking because Emery and Boucher don't exactly put fear into the eyes of their opponents. It's a less than stellar combination in goal. Yes, Pronger will be a huge help and the Flyers have plenty of good young talent up front but I'm not sold on their defense corps after Pronger and Timonen and I'm not convinced they can get past Boston and Washington and Pittsburgh to get to the Finals.

So basically it's a combination of two things: I don't believe in the Flyers goalies and defense and I don't believe Philadelphia as a team is talented enough to get past Boston and Washington and Pittsburgh. They could get past one but not more than that, in my mind. Of course once the season begins none of this matters anyway. As we all know it's how you finish the season, now how you begin it (cough Boston cough) that really matters. If Emery or Boucher get hot at the right time, who knows.

Well, I agree, I certainly didn't expect THN to pick the Flyers. But like they said in the article, it's hard to pick amongst about 8 teams that should all be in the running by the end of the year, and I guess they just went with a good team from last year that made the biggest upgrade.

I have to believe in my goalies.. and unfortunately that's gotten me nothing but headaches for most of my life.

I actually like Parent and Coburn. As long as they are allowed to the 2nd pair (or one with Pronger, one with Timonen). I'll get blasted for this, but Timonen was supposed to be the difference maker between the 08 series and the 09 series. He was a non factor in this series, repeatedly getting abused by Crosby's line. Part of that might have been taking a wicked hit early from Kunitz in the series, but he has never been impressive to me since coming to Philly.

:+1:

Even after Osgood is in the HOF with his top-5 stats and multiple SC rings, people will STILL say he was never any good. Too bad really.

Timonen isn't a shut-down defenseman. He's an all-star based on positioning, being able to log a ton of minutes, passing and skating ability - but he's undersized and though he'll block shots, he's not going to be pushing around Crosby. Hopefully that's what Pronger will do - and hopefully he will teach Coburn how to use his body.

I never said he was never any good!

Not exactly in those words, true. But to say that any goalie could win with that team is like saying Ozzie is no good.

With over 400 career wins and 3 SC rings, he deserves more respect than most people give him. Not singling you out, just making an observation.

And again starts our monthly Osgood debate.

I don't know what it is about Osgood. He's solid and has nice stats, but I never saw him as a HOFer. Maybe the teams he was on were so good that it makes him seem better than he is? I don't know.

Osgood is fine and he's been about as good of a replacement as possible, but come on, there wouldn't be a Sunday Morning without Charles Kuralt.

Here's a summary of last month's Chris Osgood debate!

Nice bit of research here. ++1!!

Lidstrom doesn't hit either, plays a positional game, logs a ton of time and is a superb passer, but he's considered a shutdown guy.

I realize Lidstrom is the gold standard, but paying the guy you described $6.3M a year sounds like an overpayment.

Sabres please?

Far too much Osgood talk in this thread.

Agreed. I'm not upset about having Timonen on my team, though. Possibly the most underrated defenseman in the league. He's not going to be the guy that pushes you around, but having watched him for a few years (including some in Nashville), he's quite good. He's certainly not Lidstrom, but with Pronger on board this is going to be a hell of a defensive corps.

I wouldn't trade Timonen for anyone on the Pens defensive roster. He is underrated by all accounts and to be honest, I don't really mind too much about his 6.3 mil a year salary, same goes with Briere's salary. The Flyers were committed to not having another bad season so they made a splash with a few signings and trades. Unlike other teams in the league who are more content on hoarding draft picks and being bad for a few years.

Kimmo is point man on the power play and I think one of the reasons he (like Carter and Richards) did not shine at the end of the season was that they just played too many minutes during the course of the year.

Now with Pronger coming in that will take some of the pressure of Kimmo and I really like the Flyers defense. I think they will go with the following:

Pronger/Colburn
Kimmo/Parent
Carle/Jones

Back to Briere, yea was injured last year but he had a good season in 2007-08 (which most forget because of last year). He was their leading scorer throughout most of the playoffs that year. I'm hoping he has a bounce back year much like Gagne did last season.

Fixed. :D

So, anyone thinking about playing fantasy this season? I had a good time playing in the FOFC league last season but I don't think it was very active.

I'd argue Gonchar, but won't fault someone for saying they like Timonen as much. Neither is a lock down type guy. Gonchar, IMO, clearly better offensively, whether carrying the puck, running the PP, or blasting shots from the point.


That is a pretty dumb argument. Didn't the Penguins pay Gonchar (and Palffy) the season after the lockout? Paying out money because you have it doesn't make you better if it's to bad players. Remember when the Isles gave Yahsin big, long term money? I don't remember them winning either.

And based on that, I'd love to hear an answer to this. For as many times I've heard the Pens tanked, I've asked for an explanation, but nobody ever has one.

For a team that tanked that season, how is it they finished 12-5-3 in their final 20 games? Or was it the first 62 they tanked, to dig a deep enough hole that playing well the final 20 wouldn't harm them?

Arguing with Pens fans about them tanking is like arguing with Red Wings fans about Osgood. Open your eyes man, your team tanked for the better half of this decade. Four years of barely over 20 wins is bad. And look at the guys on those rosters...bad. There is no way your team should be so shitty for that long that you get all those good picks. And please don't give me the bankruptcy excuse because they could've found ways.

It wasn't just the season after the lockout, it was those seasons before. They were a joke of a team and it's surprising because everyone i talked to in this city has been a pens fan since 1984 yet they could only get 5 or 6000 a night to watch that team.

Timonen is worth it. He's a #1 defenseman - just because he isn't Lidstrom doesn't mean he isn't worth it. How many people are Lidstrom, anyways?

Timonen consistently goes against the best players on the other teams, he's invaluable in the locker room, on the powerplay, and has been the only Flyers defenseman recently who knows how to pass the puck with any skill.

I have never minded his contract. Briere, I'm not sure it was justified based on what was really one season of great play in Buffalo. But the Briere/Drury/Gomez bidding frenzy pushed up his salary, and the Flyers felt they needed him to complete the team, so whatever.

Of the 3, I am still glad they got Briere.

I guess it depends what you mean by "#1 defenseman." Timonen may have been the de facto #1 in Philly last year because of how important he was to the club and how many minutes he played and what he gave the team but I don't see his overall value to a club (any club) to be anywhere near that of guys I consider to be true game changing defensemen, guys like Lidstrom, Chara and Phaneuf.

Is Timonen overpaid? No, not if he fills the role that Philadelphia wants him to do. Everything changes with Pronger on the blueline now and I think his presence takes a lot of pressure off of Timonen, whom I've always considered to be an offensive defenseman. Pronger is a clear #1 defenseman. Timonen? I don't consider him a #1 but if Philly is happy with what he brings to the team at a price of $6.3 M per year who can argue with them?

I am not sure what that means, since Red Wings' fans views of Osgood are incredibly varied from "he sucks, [insert name of backup here] should start" to "he's a sure bet for the Hall of Fame" to somewheres in between.

So there are three #1 defensemen in the league? That's it? I'm not saying Timonen is as good as those guys, or brings the same impact, but he's a clear #1 and would be for most teams.

I'm not saying there are only three #1 defensemen in the league. I'm saying that I don't consider Timonen to be an elite defenseman on par with stars like those I named and others.

Still doesn't answer the question. If they tanked, why in the world would they go 12-5-3 down the stretch? Nearly cost them Crosby 2 seasons later!!! Thank God Bettman fixed that.

You point to the team that moved Kovalev and Straka for garbage...but they got better from that point forward. Wouldn't a tanking team have gone 3-12-5?

After the lockout, they signed Gonchar (5M), Palffy (4M?), Recchi (2M), LeClair(2M), and brought back Lemieux (1M). Not positive on Palffy's salary. But adding $14M in salary is surely the sign of a team that planned on tanking. I bet they had it all in the works for Palffy to quit halfway through the season, Lemiuex's heart to fail, and LeClair to be waste, just to appear as if they were trying to win, but secretly eyeing another top 5 pick. You can slam the the front office for bringing in poor talent, but a tanking team would not have brought in those players.

And I'll never understand they could have found ways. Pay contracts they could not afford and then fold? Or hold on to the guys at the trade deadline, get nothing in return, those players sign deals with the Flyers, Rangers or Habs for double what anyone else was offering.

Don't become another angry Flyers fan. When management had blank checks to write, but couldn't bring a championship, did you have an issue with using (abusing?) that system? How is that any different than using the system in place to award bad teams higher draft picks?

sami

Curious for an outsiders unbiased opinion-- Gonchar vs Timonen

I have no problem saying Gonch is not in the realm of Chara, Lidstrom, Pronger, etc. But he's a #1 in Pittsburgh.

I'd rather have Gonchar. He's a better offensive player. Gonchar doesn't really play defense but that's not why you get him. Timonen is a poor man's Gonchar in my opinion. I'd consider Gonchar to be elite but don't consider Timonen to be in the same class. Gonchar has better numbers, too.

If you think Gonchar is more valuable than Timonen at this point in their careers, please give me whatever drugs you are on.

You're honestly saying you'd rather have Timonen on the point in a playoff game than Gonchar? You clearly think Timonen is good but better than Gonchar? Look at their career numbers. It isn't even that close.

100%, no question whatsoever. Gonchar has been a very productive offensive defenseman over the years, but Timonen is actually a defenseman.