While I'm still suspicious of Blade, I've been suspicious of LoneStarGirl, too. Normally she's much more talkative and active in games and she's been virtually silent in this one.

Such a move, especially for a newerish player like her, usually indicates a baddie in the woodworks and makes me suspicious of her than of Blade, so my vote goes to her.

VOTE LONESTARGIRL

I don't understand this. I thought that by voting we would force people into talking. If we wait until closer to deadline to start with our votes, what's to prevent the bad guys from just lying low all day?

Actually I would look more at those who voted for Chief Rum near the end of voting. My reasoning here is that if Lathum is evil, (which I don't think he is), there are likely some evil votes on Chief Rum at the end of his votes. Because they were trying to protect Lathum since the voting was beginning to get close. But not knowing if Lathum is evil or not kinda makes it a moot point.

Well to be honest, both days so far I was the second person to put a vote out for someone and gave pretty detailed reasons why I was voting that person. And both days I watched a ton of others jump on without much reasoning and see the person to be lynched.

I'm not horribly upset with the results of the lynches, I will take 50% any day when it doesn't involve a valuable good person role, but that was mostly due to luck more than anything else.

Please excuse me if I choose to wait a bit today too so others don't just decide that they'll take the easy way out.

Because then they're actually lying low and they can't make really bad arguments like "we have to make a lynch!" to disguise votes for good guys. The way it stands now we usually wind up with the same people getting the discussion going every day followed by the same people following in their wake every day. I say we give them a chance to be front runners and if they don't take it we start putting the heat on them. Without any hard evidence we're looking at another day like yesterday where a talkative player just picks a candidate and everyone falls into line.

I'm suspicious of her, too. If we are going to be looking at under the radar players, she tops my list. I should add that I'm suspicious of st.cronin's defending her only based on her vote for Scoobz.

I really don't want you to put in an earlier vote today especially because you've done it the last two days. We need to see someone else take point just so we know what more about what we're dealing with.

I am of two trains of thought here. There are a few scenerios here:

1) Both Chief and Lathum are good, and people who are in Saruman or Sauron's forces know these two aren't on their side at least. How would they have acted yesterday?

2) Chief is good, Lathum is bad, how would the people on Lathum's side in this scenerio have acted yesterday?

3) Chief is good, Lathum is independant, in this case I would think bad guys would have acted similar to #1 above.

I'm not entirely sure that I found Lathum's actions super fishy and for perhaps the first time in the game I agree with Blade that I have seen lathum act much differently as a wolf. Lathum usually is much more reserved in the early going as a wolf, is a bit more passive agressive and here I feel he has been at least more involved today.

Okay, I think the following are subtle reasons, but they add up to me keeping Lathum in my likely good column. I think lynching him is a wasted lynch and will kill a good guy.

· Lathum indicated he thought Blade was of no harm to the village. At this point in the game, I get the same feeling
· He points out Tyrith’s swap from Lathum to Swaggs as odd. That was weird and I thought so too, again good vibe.
· Suggests evaluating some of the people who are not voting for CR or Lathum, I agree that is not a bad idea
· He points out having a close race is beneficial to see who moves, etc. Sound good guy logic
· If he were on the dark side, I do not think he would say he thought there was a failed conversion. Supports being good, but still possibly knowing more. Actually I think the old man is just telling a story about tombstone. Sometimes it is hard to get a recent game out of your head
· Asks st.cronin about his odd post about saldana and CR, which st.cronin has not answered, although it has been asked by Lathum, Blade and myself
· His posts support that we need to lynch in order to win and consolidating votes on a few candidates is a good strategy – very pro villager
· Indicates we should swing votes to 2 or 3 candidates to get more than 2 or 3 votes on one person. 2 or 3 votes is not enough heat to matter

Despite his fingering me, I'm not too suspicious of st. cronin right now, but this time I'm sticking with my LSG vote. The more I think about it, the more I'm certain she's a baddy.

I have been a little bit suspicious of St.Cronin and all of his arguments against lynching people. I can understand that he wants us to learn from lynches and he doesn't think we are, but the way this game is structured, we don't really have a choice. The only thing that makes me hesitant about this is that he is so vehement about us doing the wrong things. If he is bad, I'd expect him to try to plant some seeds about not wanting us to lynch without being so forceful.

I also find it interesting that Grammaticus and Izulde both talked about players who are good votes because they are uncharacteristically quiet this game. I didn't find Chief Rum to be unusually quiet, and I don't find LSG to be unusually quiet. They seemed/seem to be talking about as much as usual. I'm thinking about taking a closer look at Izulde at the moment.

Hmm, I am not sure that I have paid a bunch of attention to Lonestargirl this game one way or another. Most of that is probably likely due to being in my bomb shelter alot of this game. I fear I don't have a good take on many of the people who are more or less UtR. I know in the small game just recently done, I felt she was a wolf (and was right) on day 1 just from how super involved and her reactions to some of the wolf moves that were made.

So far this game Lonestargirl has done a complete 180 from the last game where she was a wolf. She has been much less involved, and I don't really remember too many places where she came out with a new thought rather than just adding to current discussion. So I guess she seems to be acting differently than last game, but I dunno guess that doesn't mean much since last game didn't end too well for her.

I guess what I'm trying to say is LSG hasn't really pinged my radar any, but I would say she is one of the UtR folks. (which we have a few of)

Well I'm just going based on the experiences of the games where I've been involved in LSG. She's never been that quiet that I can recall, which to me is baddieish.

Has LSG ever been bad besides in the aborted, messed up Short Game 2?

Not that I am aware of. That was what she always said every game how she wished she got to actually be bad for once since she was always a vanilla good guy role.

As somebody, I think Mr. W?, pointed out earlier in the thread, past designations of good-bad don't count. Every game is completely new.

True, but playing styles do count.

Good point and like I said, her play style is so opposite what I've normally seen that it seems to me to say baddie, especially if she's been villager so often, i.e. trying to stay as low as possible so she can enjoy being baddie for as long as she can.

Looking at voting records, the following people have voted for someone other than the lynchee on both days:

ntndeacon
Tyrith
Swaggs
Blade
st.cronin
Chief Rum

Chief has already been lynched, proven good. With 5 people left in that group, I believe that there is a least 1, possibly 2 dark folk in that group. ntndeacon, Swaggs and st.cronin all voted for Lathum yesterday during the 2 player run off, so I don't suspect them at this point. Blade has voted for Alan both days and I haven't gotten a bad vibe from him this game.

That leaves Tyrith. Both of his votes were for people no where near the running for the lynch. I think this is a good place to hide if I'm a bad guy. So, this will be my basis for voting for him today.

Vote Tyrith

On Tyrith

I did notice that while we were making the two horse race, he backed off of Lathum to vote for Swaggs. I haven't gone back to check if there was a reason or not, but at first glance it looked fishy.

Ok, here was his reasoning. I'm still not sure I buy it, because at that point I thought we were trying to push Lathum and CR to see what people did.

Better recheck your list. I can't speak for the other names on your list, but I don't think there was much of a point to putting Chief on it and I voted for Scoobz on Day 1 (post #350).

I think you may be trying to muddy the waters, as this looks like a pretty useless list to me right now.

hmmmm hmmmm

I have you voting for ntndeacon on Day 1. I need to go back and recheck. I rely on other folks to give the voting break downs. So, I could be wrong.

It's such a good place to hide that you immediately fingered me. That logic doesn't work.

Post 350 swaggs voted for scoobz

At that point the Lathum lynch really didn't have much momentum behind it. As bad as the reasoning was for CR it was worse for Lathum, where people were just voting for him for the sake of making it a race...and that push was dying as the focus became on getting a lynch of a lynch's sake. I don't believe in that kind of lynch, so I wasn't voting for CR. Swaggs kept insisting that the day 1 vote meant something, and I strongly disagree with that concept. Was Swaggs thought process a wolf move? Not necessarily, but the wolves could push us to look at the day 1 vote record because they know it will be in their favor. Thus the vote.

I know there are going to be people who shoot holes all over it. I am prepared for that and I don't care. I am trying to use the information at hand.

I'm pretty confident that there is a dark person hiding within that group, so this is the way I am going today. I fully expect you to challenge me since I want you lynched today. You asked for someone else to get the vote ball rolling today.

I have been right about who I think are wolves in past games more than I have been wrong.

Swaggs shouldn't be a part of this group, btw. He is correct. He moved his vote from ntn to scoobz.

Just trying to break up the votes in any kind of patterns that i can find.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Early votes from the day. Saldana voted Chief back which I suppose is a common move regardless of allegiance. Izulde and JE both throw out early votes on people of their choice with their reasonings. I guess I would be curious if either of these two still feel the same way about their votes and if not, why?

Only other note here is Sndvls voted for St.Cronin early here, where St.Cronin had voted for Sndvls the day before. Both times without much fanfare or discussion though.

(446) Chief rum votes Saldana (1)
(482) Saldana votes Chief Rum (1)
(484) Izulde votes Blade (1)
(501) Jonathan Ezarik votes Daddy Torgo (1)
(504) Alan votes Chief Rum (2)
(532) Sndvls votes St.Cronin (1)
-------------------------------------------------------------
We see here the bandwagon start to form on Chief Rum with Schmidty's vote (without any explanation what so ever). Brian tosses out a vote for Spleen and once again I'm curious if Brian still feels the same way about Spleen or if his feelings have changed. If so, why?

Then an interesting thing happens the votes for Lathum start to come in with first St.Cronin and then Tyrith. From what I remember without looking back, the reasoning was he jumped onto the same story that others had used to vote for Chief and it seemed suspicious. My question though is why vote Lathum here? Why Lathum over Schmidty who made the same vote before Lathum without any explanation whatsoever?

(552) Schmidty votes Chief Rum (3)
(554) BrianD votes Spleen (1)
(555) Lathum votes Chief Rum (4)
(557) St.Cronin votes Lathum (1)
(565) Tyrith votes Lathum (2)
-----------------------------------------
This next group of votes is where the bandwagon for Chief picks up alot of steam and goes way in the lead, appearing to be a runaway. In the middle is Mr.W's vote for Lathum which if I remember right was to try to keep things close in a two horse race.

(574) Blade votes Chief Rum (5)
(577) Jonathan Ezarik UNVOTES Daddy Torgo (0) ***
(577) Jonathan Ezarik votes Chief Rum (6)
(583) Mr.Wednesday votes Lathum (3)
(585) Thomkal votes Chief Rum (7)
(593) Grammaticus votes Chief Rum (8)
----------------------------------------------------------------
After Chief gets a pretty huge lead, the momentum reverses itself and we see a clump of voters on Lathum to bring him back closer again (8-6)


(594) Swaggs votes Lathum (4)
(595) Ntndeacon votes Lathum (5)
(607) Kwhit votes Lathum (6)
--------------------------------------------------------
Next votes put it into a dead heat 7-7

(611) Blade UNVOTES Chief RUm (7) ***
(611) Blade votes Alan (1)
(616) Sublime votes Lathum (7)
--------------------------------------------------
Spleen voted for Chief which then made it a 1 vote difference which lasted for a while until we saw in a very short time Lonestargirl vote for Chief as well as Tyrith and Mr.W unvote for Lathum which basically decided the race. In the middle of this BrianD appeared to have returned to the thread as well as Daddytorgo both voting for Lathum, but it still was pretty big gap at this point. (10-7)

(625) Spleen votes Chief Rum (8)
(700) Lonestargirl votes Chief Rum (9)
(704) Tyrith UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(704) Tyrith votes Swaggs (1)
(707) BrianD UNVOTES Spleen (0) ***
(707) BrianD votes Lathum (7)
(708) Mr.Wednesday UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(708) Mr.Wednesday votes Chief Rum (10)
(712) DaddyTorgo votes Lathum (7)
----------------------------------------------------------------
The ending we had Izulde moving his vote to be a participant in the lynch and Dodgerchick putting the last vote on to cinch the lynch. We also see Kwhit do last minute flipflopping which to me seemed quite odd, but I already had distrust of Kwhit before this move.


(738) Izulde UNVOTES Blade (0) ***
(738) Izulde votes Chief Rum (11)
(752) Dodgerchick votes Chief Rum (12)
(758) Kwhit UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(758) Kwhit votes Chief Rum (13)
(765) Kwhit UNVOTES Chief Rum (12) ***
(765) Kwhit votes Lathum (7)

Eventually you all will have to realize that being a little loose with ideas is just how I play. I like to throw a lot of stuff out there like some of the other people in this game, and I can play a little crazy. I'm not afraid to think outside the box when the box is wrong and is hurting us. Please don't confuse my natural style with acting like a wolf -- and really, would a wolf be THIS stupid without a history to back it up (aka Alan can get away with it, I might not)?

what about KWhit?

You do realize that you could pick any group of five people left in the game and there is probably a bad guy in the group, right? I don't specifically care about you voting for me, but I don't want other people following you based on faulty logic.

Oh, and furthermore, in general -- if I was a bad guy and saw the CR lynch developing yesterday why wouldn't I just go ahead and come up with some BS reason to vote for him? Voting for Lathum should actually be the less suspicious of the two votes right now because we know the guy he was running against was good. By the same logic that sndvls, alan, and...LSG was it? who got minor trust points on Day 1, Alan, saldana, Lathum, and Schmidty should have minor trust points deducted for yesterday.

I'm not sure if this is a passive agressive compliment to get people to suspect me, or an insult to how when I'm wrong I am often wrong big :)

Was the small game that just finished the one your referring to(i thought it was #3 or 4)? I dont think it is, since we won and it was never aborted, and if not then she was bad that game as well(where she was pretty damn quiet, but so were cronin and ntndeacon who were good)

The reason I voted for Lathum was his vote combined with the whole discussion about a failed conversion that cronin picked up on. The two combined made him a slightly better candidate.

I think hes saying if you pulled some tricks out of the hat and got caught, people will give you the benefit of the doubt for your experience. I believe he is claiming similar moves by him would get him lynched.

Nah, it's just referring to the fact that you can do crazy stuff and get away with it because hey, it's Alan, he always does crazy stuff :)

Tyrith, if you dont mind, since you are in this thread and St.Cronin isn't... One question I have is why did you all go after Lathum yesterday and not Schmidty? Looking back at how the vote progressed and what I remember of the conversation without going back to re-read it Schmidty seemed a much more suspicious move to me than Lathum's vote did.

I'm just curious why you all overlooked Schmidty there?

Football Tryouts was Small Game 2.

LSG was quiet at the end after they were busted, but remember the first day. She was a chatty kathy and that was the behavior that made me vote for her the first two days. It was I felt uncharacteristic of her normal behavior. I feel she is more quiet this game than she was that game.

Alan, I didn't necessarily have good reason to vote for Spleen. After his talk about never being killed and all of the noise from the last game, I figured he was as good a random vote as anyone. I voted for him again the second day since I wanted to see some votes out and people talking. Usually when I throw out a random vote, I like to stick with it until a better candidate is revealed.

No, it was not...not unless you count the rookie games as something else, because their was the one bek got someone lynched, cant remember who, and they accused me of cheating by giving him help. Their was the game where gramat fake revealed duke to counter my real claim and won, and there was the one where we just won over lathum, LSG, and neuqua

I picked up the suspicious vibe on Schmidty, but he wasn't going to be around either (part of the reason I didn't want to vote for Chief Rum) and Lathum just seemed to be copying the logic saldana used without trying to add to it, which was just odd. And then the thing that cronin talked about, with that discussion of conversions and such.

On that note, at this point it seems like you might be right on the Saruman group not having a kill, or at best they alternate kills. But it seems like one kill a night might be the norm.

The _thread title_ calls it Small Game II.

So why didn't you keep your vote then? Before you said that the reasoning for voting Lathum was worse than the reasoning for CR. But doesn't that contradict this post?

Oh, and cronin, since you asked about lathum another reason for me is i always have a harder time voting for players ive had fights with. I tend to avoid voting lathum, schmidty, realdeal, etc. unless i feel they are by far the best canidate. If their equal with another, i tend to try and avoid them getting into a hissy fit and starting round 2 with me.

The_Thread_Title_Is_Wrong.

We had a number problem with the big games too..go by facts, do some research on it and you will find im right on both accounts.

My whole point about LSG is that she isn't someone who I have a lot of experience about reading. I don't know if we can categorize her behavior this game as different because she's a wolf or different because of various other reasons. If she has been a wolf in a large game we could use that as a test against her behavior now. I don't really want to count Football Tryouts because the game was small, there wasn't a lot of talking, and the game became stupid starting Day 4.

Hmm ok, I remember that part. The talk about the failed conversion made me curious as well, but in the end i think he was just telling a short story about tombstone and moved on. Keeping in mind he was the one doing the converting in tombstone and he had direct experience with getting blocked day 1.

I don't think i really agree with him about the signs pointing to a failed conversion, but after his explanation I didnt think as much of it.

Because I didn't switch to CR, I switched to Swaggs, whose continued insistence on the value of the first two days voting I _strongly_ disagreed with. If Lathum wasn't going to get lynched over CR then I wanted to use my vote to do something productive -- creating pressure and conversation. Which it did, so I'm pretty happy with it.

Yeah, it wasn't really much, but we didn't have that much to go on yesterday. At this point it's something that I'm mostly going to let drop. Yesterday seems like a fiasco in general.

I don't care about any other groups of 5. I think looking at the group of folks who haven't voted for either of then 2 lynch victims is a good place to start looking for someone on the dark side. After that, it's just using my judgement to find the one I want to vote for.

The reason why I went this way is because looking at the folks who haven't voted for a lynchee narrows down the field quite a bit.

Ahem...


:p

Yes, but there are a lot of ways you could narrow the field. You could look at the first five people to vote for Rum (which is what I'm doing right now). You could look at the first five people to vote for Lathum. You could pick 5 names out of a hat. All of these would "narrow the field". Why this way? Why is it a good place to start looking? Not that I disagree with your choice of groups, by the way.

Yeah, I was surprised when you turned up Umbrella. At least I was right about you not being on my side. :)

I nailed barkeep and hoops in the Tombstone game. I nailed Glen, path and Chief in the RE game. And I nailed LSG in the Football game. In my other 2 games, I didn't do much to help my side win. I was still getting my feet wet.

It seems like the most logical place to look to me. With the need for so many votes to get a lynch, I feel this is the best place to start looking and the easiest way to find someone. Then, once the right person is found, the others will follow suit.

i'm gonna hafta vote in the next hour and a half and then be gone until lynch and my head is spinning from all the options right now

This is more of a place-holder vote than anything. I have class 230-4, and am possibly going to the Celtics game tonight. I still should be back here in plenty of time to change the vote, but just in case, and based primarily off of a pretty weak suspicion, but a suspicion none the less:

Vote Tyrith

CNN calls MT for Tester with a 3k vote lead...1500 votes are all that's left to count

whoops sorry. wrong tab guys

aaargh i really have no good handle on who to vote for...and i want to decide in the next...hour and a half.

There's a lot of competing noise from the people who piled onto Chief Rum to make sure we had a lynch, unfortunately. :(

But why is it the most logical place? You keep saying it's the best place to start, but why? What's the next level of thought here? That's the question I've been aiming at.

I'm looking at voting records right now and sorted my filter to everyone that voted for Chief Rum (known good) and threw away a vote on Day 1 (someone other than scoobz who turned out bad). Scoobz (if my count is correct) had 15 votes at the end of the day, so I have doubts that a wolf would cast a vote on scoobz knowing it could be close (unless of course they were willing to sacrifice one of their own).

Mr. Wednesday, Schmidty, Spleen, and Thomkal meet the criteria. Mr. W and Spleen voted for Neuqua (spleen kept his vote) and Mr. W ended up voting for spleen, someone who wasn't in the running.

but don't forget that we're up against multiple "packs" of "wolves"

Whoops, hit the submit button without finishing my thought.

3 out of the 4 people are pretty UTR which also makes me suspect them. Could they be some hiding amonst the CR votes? Maybe.

I can understand some of those reasons, but I also want to point out that bad guys need lynches too. No lynch is, usually, worse for the bad guys than it is for the village.

I would expect them to vote in the middle of the day, probably scattering their vote. It keeps them involved in things, but avoids drawing unwanted attention for actually casting a deciding vote for a good guy.

I think the middle-of-the-day vote on Chief Rum makes the most sense here. Possibly one would have tried to hide a vote on Lathum as proof against a future reveal (in fact, this can work both ways) -- in this case, a close inspection of voting trends may be in order to determine whether such a vote would have felt a need to switch to CR to save Lathum.

They might have cast a vote earlier on the day on the assumption that the vote would be closer than it was. It is much better for a wolf trying to have a good voting record to get the vote in early, rather that being a piler on at the end, so they might have done that and been forced to stick with it -- or more likely more votes for scoobz would have filled up the gap. I would have voted for him if I were here, for instance.

Look again, he was the closest we had to an alternative candidate. I was trying to fuel a two-horse race so that we could get more out of the vote.

Oh yeah, totally. It was something that stood out. I mean for all I know they're all evil; it's hard to differentiate who is with who right now.

Dola, you'll probably have to look at during-the-day totals on day 1, because by the end most everyone had switched off spleen onto scoobz.

It is most logical because of my judgement and the value I place on it , I guess.

This is true, because the village has a lot of warm bodies they have to burn through, they need to start torching people.

However, I've been thinking about this whole thing today. A lot of this isn't really relevant for this game anymore, but I'm putting it out there. The problem with the first two days is that we do need to be able to put pressure on people, to get them talking...we just don't need them dead at the end of the day. I don't know how to get around this problem.

What is the judgement and value? :) I really am being tacky on the logic here, feel free to stop responding whenever...if you dare... :)

I'm glad to see more productive discussion today, at least. It seems chaotic right now, but this will be much more productive than "I'm voting for the guy with the most votes to make sure we get a lynch."

I've sat here most of the day trying to figure out where I would go with a vote. I have more people I suspect than fingers and need to narrow it down.

Out of curiosity, who does everyone think so far has been the most over the radar while producing the least meaningful discussion? Ie: Who has been creating a bunch of white noise that really leads us nowhere?

So by this post, spleen and Mr. W could be Darks from the same faction trying to disorient by voting for one another?

Whoops, upon closer inspection, Thomkal voted for Scoobz, my bad.


The first vote of the day was post #126 and the last vote was post #388. Mr. Wednesday's vote was #341 (which was closer towards the end), Schmidty's vote was #301, and spleen was #180.

I dunno, I see it more as they were throwing their vote onto someone they figured was on the side of the light instead of voting for a fellow baddie.

Please remember the high likelihood that none of the bad guys actually realized Scoobz's role.

If you and AlanT lead a charge to lynch me and succeed, you will look terrible, and my fellow citizens of Bree will be much, much weaker.

As far as my voting record, I don't think it's fair to pick on my day 1 vote, since everyone was randomly voting because of the normal day 1 lack of evidence. The only thing that you have to go on is 1 vote - Chief Rum. So saying that my "voting history" is bad, is an overstatement. I wasn't the first one to vote for him, and really had nothing else to go on, so I voted for him. Obviously, it was a mistake, but to say that it's truly incriminating is silly.

I know that although we don't have a lot to go on at this point, and that voting for me seems as good as voting for anyone else, I reiterate that you would be making a big mistake (unless you are bad yourself).

Could be, I mean it's not unheard of where fellow baddies vote for each other to take one for the team. Besides, neither of them had any heat so it's easy to disguise their vote.

I voted for Spleen at a point where it wasn't particularly close, because I felt a runaway onto a good guy would be completely useless to us. In fact, it turned out to not be a runaway onto a good guy, but I still think it was close to useless for voting record reasons because I think it's highly likely that the other bad guys weren't aware of Scoobz's role, or rather, that he was the one who held it.

I was thinking about that exact question last night, and I'm not sure. Probably Blade, at least in some ways.

After last game, I find it ironic that you ask this question. :)

Ooh, ooh, me me me! If this was designed to get people to turn against me you're probably going to do a good job.

That said, time to look at the post count:

Alan - 110 - I think you've been doing a pretty decent job with discussion, seeing that yesterday once the ball was rolling you really couldn't do that much about it. I'll be interested to hear what you have to say later today.
Tyrith - 100 - Already mentioned.
Blade - 81 - Yeah, he was okay yesterday, although that entire mess was more aggrevating than anything else.
SnDvls - 68 - Wow, I didn't realize he had this many posts. Well, he's splattered now, so it doesn't matter.

Then there is a giant mess starting with Daddy at 55 that includes a bunch of people I don't remember making any huge leaps and Lathum. In general so far we haven't had that many great ideas tossed out there; I suspect I'd have a much better answer for this question tomorrow. Right now I can't give much beyond myself.

Why am I getting brought into this Schmidty? Just for making an observation that it seemed weird that you made such a claim after just one person put a vote on you? Just because I was curious why people voted for Lathum early on yesterday instead of you when you provided less of a reason for the same vote as Lathum?

I don't really think those questions are pushes, but more legit things to be asked. So far I haven't said one thing that I think people should vote you or I would vote you. But if you want me to I can start. Is that your goal?

I mentioned at the time that I thought this was a very odd move by Tyrith as Lathum was still in the running for lynch and there was plenty of time for votes to shift. If Tyrith really thought Lathum was bad, why move his vote to someone who had NO CHANCE to get lynched?

Yeah, at this point I still find it likely that the other bad guys didn't know about scoobz. Anxiety said he asked a question about his role...could it have been asking about his allegiance? It would be a question I might ask in that situation, talking about PM rights or something.

I'm sure there are members of the other evil side with votes in there, not knowing who he was.

Everyone is so defensive over my question asking today. Have I even said anything about voting for you yet today? The only question I can remember asking you was in regards to why Lathum over Schmidty.

You haven't played with me much Alan. Everyone knows I always panic easily, and am generally the most defensive player in the game. Always. :)

My early vote yesterday against DaddyTorgo was just a hunch I had from day 1. I found his needing to be swayed to vote for Scoobz a bit odd, but his explanation for his actions changed my mind. I don't hold him high on my suspect list now.

I'm not sure this is a fair statement. I think this is my 5th - 7th game with you. I'm well aware of it, but even if you get super defensive I am curious to why you lumped me in with Dodgerchick just for asking questions of you. I notice instead of answering my question you changed subjects instead and made a sideshow of it.

Not only that - I am the acknowledged worst WW player ever. I'm too emotional.

Well, to start with, in this game it is very rare that you straight "think" someone is bad. Usually it is about probabilities -- "I think there's a bigger chance X is bad than Y". And yes, I thought it was more likely than average that Lathum was bad. However, at that poitn I also thought Lathum had very little chance of being lynched, considering the momentum of the situation. Instead I decided to shine a light on a topic that is a bit of a sore one for me, day 1 voting records (mostly meaningless! :) ) Attempting to stir up more talk, which it did even if not in the way I would have preferred. I could have just left it on Lathum and let the vote die, but what's the point of that? There's no way me moving the vote works as a wolf hiding his vote because we're still talking about the vote right now.

This goes back to last game, where the wolves are usually better off letting their votes die on people that won't get lynched than moving them. The wolves aren't going to be the people stirring up a mess unless they're ultra brave and think they can duck the pressure, and that they'll be right. We still don't put enough pressure on the UTRs while we always focus on the people that talk.

Actually looking back, this is my 10th game with you.

I wasn't implying that you were attacking me, only that it would be a pretty good way to imply my guilt without having to say it if you were being that creative :) Most of the rest of it was my riding myself for playing like such a donkey this game.

Okay so my own new list is:

LonestarGirl
Blade
Mr. Wednesday
spleen

LSG is still my strongest suspicion based on the way she's acting, hence she still has my vote.

Just so that everyone knows this before they jump to a bunch of conclusions, I was out Monday night when the switch to lynch Scoobz happened. I was out bowling from 7:30~10. So, I wasn't around to change my vote.