Front Office Football Central

Front Office Football Central (http://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//index.php)
-   FOFC Archive (http://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//forumdisplay.php?f=27)
-   -   Its' Here! NHL 2007-2008 Regular Season Thread (http://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//showthread.php?t=61204)

Pumpy Tudors 02-04-2008 09:00 AM

Last week, there was some talk during a game I watched about the entire Atlantic Division possibly making the playoffs. I thought it would be pretty neat if that happened, but the Islanders are apparently in the tank, and the Rangers are (barely) behind three teams who all have at least 3 games in hand on them. I know it's a little early to start looking at things that way, but the thoughts just crossed my mind. Wouldn't it be cool to see (most of) the old Patrick Division populating the Eastern playoffs?

Honolulu_Blue 02-04-2008 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsak16 (Post 1650780)
Wow you are optimistic that the Wings will make it out of the first round :)


That's a significant step for me. Don't mock. :)

johnnyshaka 02-04-2008 09:41 PM

Horcoff done for the season...joining Souray and Torres. Nice.

Not that the Oilers are in any position to make any noise in the West but it surely will make watching the remaining games much less enjoyable because Lowe and company surely won't bother calling up guys like Schremp or Pouliot to see what they can do.

Travis 02-04-2008 10:32 PM

Welcome back to the NHL Cujo. Wonder how much he was actually hoping he'd have to skate the last half of the ice to drop the gloves with Garon.

johnnyshaka 02-04-2008 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis (Post 1651569)
Welcome back to the NHL Cujo. Wonder how much he was actually hoping he'd have to skate the last half of the ice to drop the gloves with Garon.


That would've been something right out of the old Battle of Alberta days. Good times...good times.

Chief Rum 02-04-2008 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger (Post 1650720)
Colorado's what?



Outside of the playoffs. Don't kill the messenger. Parros was famous for his 'stache with the Kings, and he had to shave it off when he went to Colorado. After he came to Anaheim, he immediately started growing it again. They made a big deal about it locally when the Ducks acquired him.

Draft Dodger 02-05-2008 07:34 AM



I don't think he shaved it for the Avs.

Draft Dodger 02-05-2008 07:45 AM

dola

nor do I think he started growing it "after he came to Anaheim"

"According to a Denver Post article on November 7, 2006, Parros got grief for shaving the moustache and has since grown it back."

"On November 13, 2006, Parros was traded to the Anaheim Ducks for a 2nd round draft pick and an option to swap 3rd round picks."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Parros

Honolulu_Blue 02-05-2008 08:13 AM

I think we need to call in Arlen Spector to get to the bottom of Moustachegate.

The country deserves to know the truth. We need to know the truth.

Honolulu_Blue 02-06-2008 09:37 AM

It will be interesting to see how teams approach the trade deadline this year. Most likely, the GMs or owners will cave and you'll see the same types of deals (prospects, first rounds picks, etc. for a top line UFA), but I think there may be a bit more caution following some rather dubious results from last season. None of those deadline blockbusters worked out. Tkachuk went back the Blues, Forsberg headed back to Sweden, Bertuzzi bolted to Anaheim, Ryan Smyth took off for Colorado... Each team gave up a lot in the way of picks and prospects for very little in return.

As for the Wings, I am not sure what they'll do. For the reasons stated above, I don't think they will make a serious run at a Sundin, Hossa, or anyone like that. They were burned last year with the Calder and Bertuzzi deals. Any potential UFA they get, will almost certainly be a strict, one-year rental. The Wings are coming up against the cap. Zetterberg's sweetheart $2.9 million a year deal expires next year, so they will, in all likelihood, sign him to a lengthy extension over the summer. He'll probably cost a little more than Datsyuk's $6.7 million after the recent slew of mega-deals. I think $7 million a year over the next 6-7 years is about what the Wings would like to see. After that deal is done, the Wings will have very little cap space.

They are already considering the possibility of NOT being able to retain Super Dan Cleary. They desperately want to keep him. He's been great, but he'll probably be able to make a good $1.5-$2 million more on the open market than what the Wings can afford. While the Wings have been able to get hometown discounts from some of their players, it will be hard for Cleary. He loves it here and he totally turned his career around thanks to the Wings, but this is going to be his best shot at making some serious money. It will be tough for him to pass up that opportunity. Guys like Lidstrom, Draper, Maltby, Chelios, etc. have already made their serious coin.

I'd look for the Wings to grab a depth defensemen (not quite Rob Blake, but a step above Cory Cross). They don't want to be in a position where guys like Lilja and Quincey are forced into serious minutes due to injuries, like last year when Kronwall and Schneider went down. They may also look for a depth forward (Fedorov?).

Draft Dodger 02-06-2008 10:10 AM

Avs GM Francois Giguere does not seem to be a guy who likes to part with prospects, so I don't expect the Avs to be buyers at the deadline. Last year they added just Scott Parker and Michael Wall, and I don't think we'll be in the hunt for any of the big names this year either.

John-Michael Liles is a UFA this summer and it doesn't sound like the Avs are going to bring him back. There's a lot of talk that he'll be dealt at the deadline (hey, it's not like losing him will make our PP any worse). The mini-resurgence from Theodore gives me some thoughts that he might finally be attractive enough to be dealt. Unfortunately, he is Quenneville's favorite now and so won't be going anywhere.

johnnyshaka 02-06-2008 11:00 AM

The Oilers should most definitely be sellers. We've got a couple of RFAs we need to either deal or be prepared to pay (Stoll, Pitkannen, and Gilbert) as well as a couple of fat contracts (Roloson and Staios) that could make things a little easier next year as we're running low on cap space...thanks to retarded contracts like the ones mentioned and guys like Pisani and Moreau.

So, if I were GM of the Oilers, what would I be doing over the next little while? Well, call me crazy, but I'd be looking for suitors for a goalie. But, I wouldn't be shopping Roloson, I'd be shopping Garon. Roloson isn't going to get you much and would simply be a salary dump not netting anything of value. So, next year we'd have an extra $3 mil to sign a free agent. Great. We saw how tough it was to attract free agents last year, why risk that again? True, new ownership could resolve some of that but I wouldn't want to bank on it. Instead, why not learn from our mistakes with a career backup who is likely playing over his head...exactly like Roloson did a couple of years ago...and deal him now while his value is at it's peak? He's cheap and he's under contract for another year...surely there would a handful of teams looking for a very solid backup or even a potential starting goalie who's only making $1 mil per. Makes perfect sense to me. Keep Roloson and use him as a constant reminder to stop rewarding players based on half a season's worth of success. We've got a kid in the AHL who's playing great for the 2nd season in a row...maybe it's his time to get a shot? And, maybe Roloson turns things around and plays great the rest of the season and we try to deal him this summer...who knows?

I think Pitkannen has to go as well...his value is pretty high right now and if not for a few injuries throughout the season, I think you would have heard his name mentioned much more often as he's been electric when he's been in the lineup. I would be asking top dollar for this kid and if I didn't get it...no big deal, RFA offer sheets will surely be flying in on this guy and if we like the price...great, sign him...if not, buh-bye. Even if the sheets don't come in, take him to arbitration and deal him afterwards.

Gilbert isn't going anywhere...he's the one RFA we sign for sure and do our best to do it ASAP. He's been the biggest surprise this season and needs to be an Oiler for the forseeable future.

Stoll, well, unless we get a jaw-dropping offer, I don't see moving him just yet. His value is pretty low after a slow start this season and missing half of last season due to a concussion. He's making some decent coin right now but shouldn't figure for much of a raise because the numbers and performance just aren't there. Again, I'd hold out for a good return and if it doesn't come, I'd gauge the offer sheet frenzy this summer and go from there. If he doesn't get snatched up, sign him to a 1 year deal and hope that he's healthy next season and ship him out this time next year in hopes that he'd be worth more.

Staios is making some pretty big bucks but I'm not sure we dump this guy for nothing just yet. Staios is the only vet we've got back on the blueline right now with Souray on the shelf and he's a solid character guy who'll do whatever it takes...we're definitely lacking in that department. As young as we are on the backend, I think I eat the salary and keep him...but, with that said, if somebody knocks my socks off I would do a deal in a heartbeat.

I'd be on the phone to Tampa to see what Richards, Vinny, or Boyle are going to cost because I've got some chips to deal that I think the Lightning just might like. Garon, for one, could start for them or at least push Denis and he's definitely on the cheap. Pitkannen would definitely be a good fit especially if they can't lock up Boyle. I would bring up Schremp's name. And, if I were talking about Vinny I'd mention Cogliano's name. If it's Richards, I'd probably say something about Stoll.

If that didn't pan out, I'd give the Panthers a call and have a very similar conversation about Jokinen.

What do I think the Lowe is going to do? I'd say he'll probably dump Roloson for a mid-round pick or a fringe prospect. I think that's the deal everybody knows is coming. I also think he's going to deal Pitkannen with another player or two...maybe another RFA like Robert Nilsson or maybe even Stoll for several prospects and picks. Unfortunately, I don't think we are going to get any "current" talent back nor do I think he'll make an attempt at a super star who's under contract.

The next couple of weeks should be interesting.

Draft Dodger 02-06-2008 11:10 AM

Garon was a terrific signing. I would have loved for the Avs to have picked him up this summer. Whether they move him or Roloson, it was a great pickup to give them that flexibility.

Maple Leafs 02-06-2008 11:56 AM

Honolulu_Blue should enjoy this:
http://www.leafsaretrash.com/compara...t-and-toronto/

Maple Leafs 02-06-2008 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue (Post 1651677)
I think we need to call in Arlen Spector to get to the bottom of Moustachegate.

The country deserves to know the truth. We need to know the truth.


http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/...stache-of-doom

Honolulu_Blue 02-06-2008 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs (Post 1652946)


Thanks, ML. I did enjoy it.

The kicker to that sound analysis is that the Wings have built their team using groomed drafts over the course of many years in which they either had no first round pick or picked near the very bottom of the first round. In the last 15 years, (other than the wonky 2005 draft lottery thing) the highest the Wings have drafted was 22nd overall ('92 (Curtis Bowen) and '93 (Anders Eriksson)).

Of the players in that list, only Kronwall (29th overall) was a first round pick.

johnnyshaka 02-06-2008 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger (Post 1652890)
Garon was a terrific signing. I would have loved for the Avs to have picked him up this summer. Whether they move him or Roloson, it was a great pickup to give them that flexibility.


I really liked it from the get go as well...especially considering the cost. I just hope the Oilers don't bank on him becoming a number one guy...like they did with Roloson. He is what he is...a cheap backup playing over his head and a bargaining chip.

Travis 02-06-2008 10:40 PM

I'll have to disagree with Johnny. I'd much prefer to see Garon here as the #1 next year even if we can only get a bag of pucks for Roloson. I definitely want to see Deslauriers get a crack next year (playing 20-30 games), but relying on him to backstop the Oilers to the playoffs is quite a tall task, and one which I can't imagine Roli would be up to if he's the goalie retained. The fact they're only a game under .500 to this point of the season with all the injuries they've had certainly points to potential success next year if they can battle this hard and not lose so much time to injury. I'd much rather see what they can accomplish with Garon backstopping that effort than a rookie or Roli (never mind finishing off this season stronger as well seeing as how our first won't benefit us anyways).

Not only that, but dishing Roloson could open up enough room to sign Pitkanen long term (a move I want to see) which would allow them to move Staios while he still has value (and clear his 2+ million contract). Now is also the perfect time to resign Stoll, if possible to a 3+ year deal as he's at a low value point and will hopefully be all the way back from his injury next season. It's a low risk/high reward contract situation that could pay off a lot more than anything they're likely to get for him in a trade right now. Add in that we now have an owner who can afford to eat a contract like that if things don't turn out well gives them some room to try and get Stoll for a bargain if he does return to last year's form.

Past that, I fully agree with you in that no matter the situation, look to add a top two line player at the deadline who is signed at least through next season. Adding picks/prospects at this point just adds to a logjam (especially at the forward positions) when what this team is really missing right now is a top tier finisher. Use some of the resources currently available as far as picks and prospects to nab a player of that ilk, then look at recouping some of those assets by moving guys like Roli and Staios. Odds are we can't bank on dipping into the UFA market for a player like that (would be a nice bonus if that were the case), so overpay a bit if necessary as the overall youth of the current team should mean roster turnover the next few seasons should be relatively minimal.

bhlloy 02-06-2008 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis (Post 1653509)
when what this team is really missing right now is a top tier finisher.


You mean that's not what the $50m you spent on a career third-liner got you? :p

Kevin Lowe - bringing new meaning to the word "desperation"

johnnyshaka 02-07-2008 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy (Post 1653527)
You mean that's not what the $50m you spent on a career third-liner got you? :p


I'm not sure who you are talking about...we don't have any guys making that kind of money.

Pyser 02-07-2008 12:45 AM

my goodness, the buffalo play by play guy does nothing but scream ALL GAME.

i dont know how you listen to that all year.

Chief Rum 02-07-2008 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka (Post 1653538)
I'm not sure who you are talking about...we don't have any guys making that kind of money.


Well, bhlloy overshot the amount abit. But I am pretty sure his point is that if indeed there do happen to be any Oiler RFAs worth a damn available on July 1, there will be a ton of GMs itching to make ridiculous offers and let Lowe know how they feel about his opening Pandora's box last year.

johnnyshaka 02-07-2008 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 1653547)
Well, bhlloy overshot the amount abit. But I am pretty sure his point is that if indeed there do happen to be any Oiler RFAs worth a damn available on July 1, there will be a ton of GMs itching to make ridiculous offers and let Lowe know how they feel about his opening Pandora's box last year.


Yeah, overshot just a wee bit...by over 100%. :rolleyes:

Pandora's box? Do we really have to get into this again? Lowe is hardly the first guy to do this and in fact over the years the Oilers have been the most frequent victim:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...d_offer_sheets

I don't know why you are still whining about this...you'll have, at worst, a top 10 pick because of it.

I hope GMs do make ridiculous offers on all of our RFAs...we could use some picks in 2009 and it would clear up some cap space. Offer away!!!

Dr. Sak 02-07-2008 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyser (Post 1653539)
my goodness, the buffalo play by play guy does nothing but scream ALL GAME.

i dont know how you listen to that all year.


THANK YOU!! I have been saying that for years...he is so annoying to listen to.

Pumpy Tudors 02-07-2008 07:41 AM

I can't believe it. I just can't believe it. As a longtime Devils fan, I can't believe that I came to work wearing a Penguins cap. I also have a Penguins shirt with me, which I will change into before I leave. I've been to a handful of Penguins games, but this is the first time that I'm dressing as a Pens fan.

The Devils fan in me wants the Islanders to beat Pittsburgh tonight, as the Islanders are at the bottom of the division and unlikely to make the playoffs. The western Pennsylvania resident and good husband in me wants the Penguins to win. I'll be behind one of the nets tonight as the Penguins host the Islanders. I'll cheer for the Penguins when I'm there. I just hope that none of the fans remember me as the guy dressed in Devils red last year. I think I was the only guy in the building who didn't cheer when Malkin scored his first NHL goal that night.

Wish me luck.

Dr. Sak 02-07-2008 07:47 AM

Good luck and somewhere Lou Lamoriello is crying.

I'll admit I rooted for the Pens last year when I went to games because the Flyers just stunk. But this year I go and root for the outcome that will best help my team.

Travis 02-07-2008 10:22 AM

Just to clarify, I'm still a fan of the Penner move and really like what he's shown over the second half of the season so far, but if we could add an established first line scorer and be able to play Penner on the second line at least through next season it'd give the team two lines that can contribute on a regular basis, improve the PP and a bit of team depth in that role.

johnnyshaka 02-07-2008 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis (Post 1653719)
Just to clarify, I'm still a fan of the Penner move and really like what he's shown over the second half of the season so far, but if we could add an established first line scorer and be able to play Penner on the second line at least through next season it'd give the team two lines that can contribute on a regular basis, improve the PP and a bit of team depth in that role.


What I'd love to see is something like Pitkanen, Schremp, Stoll, Cogliano and maybe a pick go to Florida for Bouwmeester and Jokinen. Penner and Jokinen on the first line with Hemsky and getting Horcoff back on the second line, where he belongs, with Gagne and Nilsson.

Draft Dodger 02-07-2008 11:01 AM

someone just pointed me to this awesome site that calculates a team's odds of making the playoffs (changed daily).

Pumpy Tudors 02-07-2008 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger (Post 1653752)
someone just pointed me to this awesome site that calculates a team's odds of making the playoffs (changed daily).

This is awesome. Thanks. According to that site, the Penguins-Islanders game makes pretty much no difference to the Devils' playoff chances. I can cheer for the Penguins in peace.

RomaGoth 02-07-2008 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue (Post 1652784)
I'd look for the Wings to grab a depth defensemen (not quite Rob Blake, but a step above Cory Cross). They don't want to be in a position where guys like Lilja and Quincey are forced into serious minutes due to injuries, like last year when Kronwall and Schneider went down. They may also look for a depth forward (Fedorov?).


Only reason to pick up Fedorov is for depth on the Injured List. Best thing they ever did was let him leave. Bringing him back would be a mistake. Even as a depth forward.

RomaGoth 02-07-2008 11:49 AM

The Wings continue to win at an alarming pace. As a Wings fan it is exciting but scary at the same time. Usually with this team, the more they win in the regular season, the less they win in the postseason. If they do not win the Cup this year, serious consideration should be taken into firing Babcock. He has yet to show he can coach when the games really matter.

MikeVic 02-07-2008 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomaGoth (Post 1653833)
The Wings continue to win at an alarming pace. As a Wings fan it is exciting but scary at the same time. Usually with this team, the more they win in the regular season, the less they win in the postseason. If they do not win the Cup this year, serious consideration should be taken into firing Babcock. He has yet to show he can coach when the games really matter.


Don't worry, if you dominate in the regular season, you always win the championship. In any sport. I can't think of the last time this hasn't happened.

RomaGoth 02-07-2008 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic (Post 1653841)
Don't worry, if you dominate in the regular season, you always win the championship. In any sport. I can't think of the last time this hasn't happened.


+1

RomaGoth 02-07-2008 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger (Post 1651663)


I don't think he shaved it for the Avs.


My wife would never let me grow my hair like this. Of course, that implies that I COULD grow it like this. Which I can't. The mustache, however......

Honolulu_Blue 02-07-2008 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomaGoth (Post 1653829)
Only reason to pick up Fedorov is for depth on the Injured List. Best thing they ever did was let him leave. Bringing him back would be a mistake. Even as a depth forward.


Right, because, the Wings never had any success when Fedorov was on the the team (3 Stanley Cups) and he never performed well in the playoffs (163 points in 162 playoff games).

Fedorov wouldn't be brought in to be a top line forward. I think he'd be a great fit. He's sound defensively, he still has some wheels, and can play well in the Wings' puck possession style.

Honolulu_Blue 02-07-2008 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomaGoth (Post 1653833)
If they do not win the Cup this year, serious consideration should be taken into firing Babcock. He has yet to show he can coach when the games really matter.


Stop it.

Babcock took Anaheim to the Cup finals. A lot of people seem to forget that the Wings actually were pretty successful last year in the playoffs and won a lot of games that "really mattered." They were one bad clearing attempt and an Andreas Lilja brain-fart away of being up 3-2 on the Cup winners. They were really close.

MikeVic 02-07-2008 12:16 PM

I thought Fedorov played defense now?

Honolulu_Blue 02-07-2008 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic (Post 1653841)
Don't worry, if you dominate in the regular season, you always win the championship. In any sport. I can't think of the last time this hasn't happened.


Babcock took note of this.

A local news station here interviewed him and Babcock said he was going to use clips of the Super Bowl to remind the Red Wings that their season is all about winning their last game.

Honolulu_Blue 02-07-2008 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic (Post 1653875)
I thought Fedorov played defense now?


He moves back and forth. He did this in Detroit too at times.

Draft Dodger 02-07-2008 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomaGoth (Post 1653865)
My wife would never let me grow my hair like this. Of course, that implies that I COULD grow it like this. Which I can't. The mustache, however......


I was rockin' a fu for a little while this winter, but finally bowed to my wife's pressure.

well, that and the fact that it was kind of a pain to maintain.

RomaGoth 02-07-2008 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue (Post 1653876)
Babcock took note of this.

A local news station here interviewed him and Babcock said he was going to use clips of the Super Bowl to remind the Red Wings that their season is all about winning their last game.


Did he get these "clips" from the Hoodie? ;)

RomaGoth 02-07-2008 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue (Post 1653874)
Stop it.

Babcock took Anaheim to the Cup finals. A lot of people seem to forget that the Wings actually were pretty successful last year in the playoffs and won a lot of games that "really mattered." They were one bad clearing attempt and an Andreas Lilja brain-fart away of being up 3-2 on the Cup winners. They were really close.


Babcock has not proven anything to me yet. When you have the best run team in the NHL (and arguably the best run sports franchise in any sport), you should be winning in the regular season and the playoffs. Bowman did a great job with this team during his coaching tenure with the Wings. I understand you cannot win every season, but I (as you probably do as well) remember the dark days of the Wings. I do not want to revisit those days without at least a few more Cups under our belt. This Wings team has been too good for too long to only have 3 Cups in nearly 13 stellar seasons. Perhaps my expectations are too high, but that is what happens when your team wins consistently. So, Babcock needs to win at least 1 Cup with the Wings or his coaching tenure is a failure. At least IMHO. :)

Honolulu_Blue 02-07-2008 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomaGoth (Post 1653897)
So, Babcock needs to win at least 1 Cup with the Wings or his coaching tenure is a failure. At least IMHO. :)


That's quite a different statement than:

"If they do not win the Cup this year, serious consideration should be taken into firing Babcock. He has yet to show he can coach when the games really matter."

Yes, Bowman had a great run with the Wings. Amazing. He's the greatest NHL coach of all time. That said, he was coach for 9 years and won 3 cups. The Wings didn't win their first Cup until Bowman's 4th year behind the bench.

By your rationale, the Wings should have seriously considered firing Bowman after the '95-'96 season, which, by the way, is the season that has most closely paralleled this season in terms regular season success... That '95-'96 Wings team had one of the best regular seasons in NHL history in terms of points and wins and what not. They got bounced in the Conference Finals by the Avs.

Maple Leafs 02-07-2008 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger (Post 1653752)
someone just pointed me to this awesome site that calculates a team's odds of making the playoffs (changed daily).

When I go to that site, I get "The page cannot be displayed".

How does it know I'm a Leaf fan?

johnnyshaka 02-07-2008 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs (Post 1653926)
How does it know I'm a Leaf fan?


All of your IPs are tracked...but you didn't hear it from me.

RomaGoth 02-07-2008 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue (Post 1653920)
That's quite a different statement than:

"If they do not win the Cup this year, serious consideration should be taken into firing Babcock. He has yet to show he can coach when the games really matter."

Yes, Bowman had a great run with the Wings. Amazing. He's the greatest NHL coach of all time. That said, he was coach for 9 years and won 3 cups. The Wings didn't win their first Cup until Bowman's 4th year behind the bench.

By your rationale, the Wings should have seriously considered firing Bowman after the '95-'96 season, which, by the way, is the season that has most closely paralleled this season in terms regular season success... That '95-'96 Wings team had one of the best regular seasons in NHL history in terms of points and wins and what not. They got bounced in the Conference Finals by the Avs.


Not at all. The difference is that Bowman had already proven himself, where as Babcock has not. That is the basis of my argument. When Bowman took over the Wings, they were not yet the power they are today. He completely changed their mentality from perennial wannabe's to winners. Babcock is just continuing that tradition. He needs to take them into the next phase: winning a Cup. Going to the finals with Anaheim once does not constitute a great coach or a great career. I am hoping that we do not see a repeat of that 95-96 playoffs.

bbor 02-07-2008 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs (Post 1653926)
When I go to that site, I get "The page cannot be displayed".

How does it know I'm a Leaf fan?



It's your Kerry Fraser hair cut.

Honolulu_Blue 02-07-2008 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomaGoth (Post 1653935)
Not at all. The difference is that Bowman had already proven himself, where as Babcock has not. That is the basis of my argument. When Bowman took over the Wings, they were not yet the power they are today. He completely changed their mentality from perennial wannabe's to winners. Babcock is just continuing that tradition. He needs to take them into the next phase: winning a Cup. Going to the finals with Anaheim once does not constitute a great coach or a great career. I am hoping that we do not see a repeat of that 95-96 playoffs.


In 1996-96 the Wings were the epitome of "perennial wannabes." Even after the second Cup in 1998, the Wings continued to under perform in the playoffs, exiting in the second round in 99 and 00 and the first in 01. It wasn't until the Wings managed to add that collection of all-stars (Robitaille, Hull, and Hasek) to their already talent-laden team in 2001-2002, that the Wings became "winners" again.

In 2003 and 2004, the Dave Lewis coached Wings, again, lost in the first and second rounds, respectively.

Then the strike comes and the salary cap is put in place. The Wings lose in the first round in 2006, which, let's be honest, is more consistent with the last 10 years than winning the Cup would have been.

The Wings then lose stalwarts like Yzerman and Shanahan, but still manage to make it to the Conference Finals, the furthest they made it in the playoffs in 8 years (other than that super '02 team).

I think Babcock has done a great job with this team. No, he's not Scotty Bowman. He will likely never be Scotty Bowman. But that's not a fair comparison for any coach. He's Scotty Freakin' Bowman.

RomaGoth 02-07-2008 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue (Post 1653976)
In 1996-96 the Wings were the epitome of "perennial wannabes." Even after the second Cup in 1998, the Wings continued to under perform in the playoffs, exiting in the second round in 99 and 00 and the first in 01. It wasn't until the Wings managed to add that collection of all-stars (Robitaille, Hull, and Hasek) to their already talent-laden team in 2001-2002, that the Wings became "winners" again.

In 2003 and 2004, the Dave Lewis coached Wings, again, lost in the first and second rounds, respectively.

Then the strike comes and the salary cap is put in place. The Wings lose in the first round in 2006, which, let's be honest, is more consistent with the last 10 years than winning the Cup would have been.

The Wings then lose stalwarts like Yzerman and Shanahan, but still manage to make it to the Conference Finals, the furthest they made it in the playoffs in 8 years (other than that super '02 team).

I think Babcock has done a great job with this team. No, he's not Scotty Bowman. He will likely never be Scotty Bowman. But that's not a fair comparison for any coach. He's Scotty Freakin' Bowman.


+1

All very good points.

Maple Leafs 02-07-2008 07:59 PM

Interesting survey that apparently shows that more sports fans consider hockey their favorite sport than NBA basketball.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/har...ex.asp?PID=622

I don't think 5% is good, and it's well behind football, baseball, and auto racing. But it's higher than it's been in 20 years, and still better than basketball, golf, and tennis.

Of course, let people list a top three or top five instead of just one and watch the numbers change radically.

Chief Rum 02-07-2008 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka (Post 1653550)
Yeah, overshot just a wee bit...by over 100%. :rolleyes:

Pandora's box? Do we really have to get into this again? Lowe is hardly the first guy to do this and in fact over the years the Oilers have been the most frequent victim:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...d_offer_sheets

I don't know why you are still whining about this...you'll have, at worst, a top 10 pick because of it.

I hope GMs do make ridiculous offers on all of our RFAs...we could use some picks in 2009 and it would clear up some cap space. Offer away!!!


Ducks don't need to. You can hope more needy teams may give it a shot, though (too bad you can't "poach" yourself, huh?).

Dr. Sak 02-08-2008 06:48 AM

For the USA Hockey fans

USA Hockey Magazine predicts '10 Olympic roster

Forwards:
Dustin Brown
Brian Gionta
Patrick Kane
Erik Cole
Scott Gomez
Phil Kessel
Chris Drury (shoe-in for Cpt)
Chris Higgins
Ryan Kessler
Zack Parise
Brian Rolston
Paul Stastny
RJ Umberger

Defense
Chris Chelios (he'd be 46)
Mike Komisarek
Erik Johnson
Paul Martin
Jack Johnson
Brian Rafalski
Ryan Whitney

Goalies
Rick DiPietro
Ryan Miller
Tim Thomas

Ryan S 02-08-2008 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsak16 (Post 1654422)
Chris Chelios (he'd be 46)


He is 46 now, he will be 48 when the Olympics start.

Maple Leafs 02-09-2008 07:06 PM

The linesman in today's Rangers/Flyers game getting kicked in the face, suffering a broken jaw and 60-stitch cut, then pushing the ref away so he could go break up a fight was probably the most badass thing I've seen all year.

Seriously, the NHL should use that in their commercials.

Draft Dodger 02-10-2008 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs (Post 1655531)
The linesman in today's Rangers/Flyers game getting kicked in the face, suffering a broken jaw and 60-stitch cut, then pushing the ref away so he could go break up a fight was probably the most badass thing I've seen all year.

Seriously, the NHL should use that in their commercials.


Hey, check out the new blog!

(I probably should get the "down goes brown" reference, but it's escaping me at the moment)

Maple Leafs 02-10-2008 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger (Post 1655688)
(I probably should get the "down goes brown" reference, but it's escaping me at the moment)



Chief Rum 02-10-2008 05:10 PM

Please let the Wings and Ducks meet in the playoffs...
Please let the Wings and Ducks meet in the playoffs...
Please let the Wings and Ducks meet in the playoffs...
...

Draft Dodger 02-10-2008 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs (Post 1655853)
a youtube video


nice!

it's totally awesome that you've created a blog dedicated to the other Avalanche captain...


RendeR 02-10-2008 07:14 PM

Panthers Zednick gets cut in the neck by a skate from a falling teamate and is rushed to the locker room, the entire medical staff is working on him, there is blood all over the ice and the game has been halted for the time being in Buffalo.

Chief Rum 02-10-2008 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR (Post 1656147)
Panthers Zednick gets cut in the neck by a skate from a falling teamate and is rushed to the locker room, the entire medical staff is working on him, there is blood all over the ice and the game has been halted for the time being in Buffalo.


Holy shit...

Maple Leafs 02-10-2008 07:36 PM

Any update? I see the game has resumed, is Zednick OK?

Chief Rum 02-10-2008 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs (Post 1656170)
Any update? I see the game has resumed, is Zednick OK?


Yes, would like an update. Tried to find something online, but just seeing the live box score.

Maple Leafs 02-10-2008 07:42 PM

TSN.ca says he's stable and on his way to the hospital.

sterlingice 02-10-2008 07:43 PM

According to ESPN.com:

Players and coaches on both benches looked on in shock, and a silent hush fell over the crowd at HSBC Arena. The game was delayed for more than 15 minutes as crews scraped the blood from the ice.

"Richard Zednik is in stable condition and on his way to a Buffalo hospital," was the announcement over the loudspeaker.



SI

NoSkillz 02-10-2008 07:51 PM

I must have said 'Holy Shit' about fifty times after it happened...Malarchuk all over again and in Buffalo, no less.

I just hope he's okay...there was a huge trail of blood all the way from the corner to the bench.

JonInMiddleGA 02-10-2008 08:01 PM

Is this accurate? Or did the reporter get a little ahead of himself?

http://www.buffalonews.com/258/story/273338.html
Updated: 02/10/08 8:39 PM

The scariest moment in hockey happened again in Buffalo, as a player had his jugular vein severed Sunday night during the Sabres game against the Florida Panthers. Florida's Richard Zednik was struck in the throat by the skate of falling teammate Olli Jokinen, a large trail of blood leading Zednik halfway across the ice to the dressing room.

Zednik skated from the corner to his bench, where he was greeted by trainers from both teams who applied pressure to the neck of the 32-year-old. He was quickly escorted back through the tunnel leading to the dressing room.

Officials and players waved for the medical personnel, who turned away from the rink and ran back for a stretcher. Upon returning to the entrance, officials waved off the unnecessary stretcher and skated briskly across the ice with a paramedic in tow.

Gasps came from the sellout crowd in HSBC Arena as it saw the more than 100-foot blood trail on the ice. After a 15-minute delay, the public-address announcer relayed that Zednik was in stable condition and on his way to a Buffalo hospital. Fans responded with a standing ovation, but silence quickly returned.

Longtime residents and Sabres fans quickly flashed back to March 1989, when the jugular of Sabres goaltender Clint Malarchuk was slashed by the skate of St. Louis' Steve Tuttle.


In case it isn't clear, I'm questioning the specific injury that's being cited.

Galaxy 02-10-2008 08:03 PM

http://www.wgrz.com/news/news_articl...?storyid=55248

Panthers' Zednick Injured by Skate, Rushed to Hospital

Click here to add your comments on this story!
Posted by: Thea Tio, Reporter

Created: 2/10/2008 8:40:46 PM
Updated: 2/10/2008 8:54:24 PM

Panthers hockey player Richard Zednick was injured when his teammate's skate cut his neck at a Sabres game on Sunday evening.

Sabres' doctors immediately stopped the bleeding.

A trail of blood could be seen from the goal line in the Sabres' zone all the way to the Panthers' bench.

Zednick was transported to Buffalo General Hospital. He is in stable condition and will undergo surgery.

Channel 2 will have more information in tonight's 11 PM newscast and right here on wgrz.com.

Galaxy 02-10-2008 08:05 PM

Lindy Ruff seems pretty chocked-up about it in the post-game interview.

Galaxy 02-10-2008 08:14 PM

He's now in surgery.

Maple Leafs 02-10-2008 08:24 PM

The footage:



Edit: It's disturbing, but not especially gruesome.

Galaxy 02-10-2008 08:40 PM

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/brea...ry/414253.html

RendeR 02-10-2008 09:00 PM

Sorry I wasn't updating that guys, I was huddle on the couch with Telle as we waited patiently to hear that he was ok. It was really scary to watch. (I actually missed the live action, Telle told me it happened then they showed the replays.)

Fidatelo 02-10-2008 09:10 PM

So when do we start hearing the calls for mandatory neck guards?

johnnyshaka 02-10-2008 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidatelo (Post 1656286)
So when do we start hearing the calls for mandatory neck guards?


It didn't happen after Malarchuk...why would it now?? Not that they would be obstructive in anyway...

Fidatelo 02-10-2008 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka (Post 1656288)
It didn't happen after Malarchuk...why would it now?? Not that they would be obstructive in anyway...


Because the media jumps all over things now, and our culture is much more about protecting people from themselves in all areas than it was 20 years ago.

Travis 02-10-2008 09:31 PM

If they can't get visors to be mandatory, I highly doubt neckguards will get that designation.

Which is unfortunate really. The sooner both are mandated, the better.

johnnyshaka 02-10-2008 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidatelo (Post 1656297)
Because the media jumps all over things now, and our culture is much more about protecting people from themselves in all areas than it was 20 years ago.


Good point. I can't believe it's been 20 years since that incident.

Fidatelo 02-10-2008 10:18 PM

I know it's dumb, but I wouldn't want neckguards mandatory. I play once a week, and while I do wear a visor, there are two pieces of equipment that I just don't feel comfortable in: a neckguard, and a mouth guard.

I wore a neck guard as a kid, and I just hated the thing. After losing most of a front tooth in a floor hockey game, I tried wearing a mouth guard, but I'm a mouth breather and I just found it tourturous trying to get air. I actually took a puck in the mouth four weeks ago that thankfully didn't cost me any teeth (although it opened me up pretty good), and still my mouthguard sits at the bottom of my bag. I think I might be more comfortable moving to a full cage, but I haven't made up my mind.

johnnyshaka 02-11-2008 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidatelo (Post 1656354)
I know it's dumb, but I wouldn't want neckguards mandatory. I play once a week, and while I do wear a visor, there are two pieces of equipment that I just don't feel comfortable in: a neckguard, and a mouth guard.

I wore a neck guard as a kid, and I just hated the thing. After losing most of a front tooth in a floor hockey game, I tried wearing a mouth guard, but I'm a mouth breather and I just found it tourturous trying to get air. I actually took a puck in the mouth four weeks ago that thankfully didn't cost me any teeth (although it opened me up pretty good), and still my mouthguard sits at the bottom of my bag. I think I might be more comfortable moving to a full cage, but I haven't made up my mind.



I, too, play once a week and have never worn a mouth piece...but, I do wear a cage...always have. Well, save for about half a dozen games about 15 years ago when I took an elbow in the chops and suffered my last concussion. But, I do have all of my own teeth...thankfully.

Honolulu_Blue 02-11-2008 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 1655965)
Please let the Wings and Ducks meet in the playoffs...
Please let the Wings and Ducks meet in the playoffs...
Please let the Wings and Ducks meet in the playoffs...
...


While I don't think that one bad call determines an outcome of a game (save some exceptional circumstances), that was a very bad call.

Draft Dodger 02-11-2008 10:15 AM

I can't stop looking at this photo up at TSN.



not for Zednick...but for the look on the faces of the people in the stands.

johnnyshaka 02-11-2008 11:03 AM

Definitely glad to hear he's doing well.

Fidatelo 02-11-2008 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka (Post 1656383)
I, too, play once a week and have never worn a mouth piece...but, I do wear a cage...always have. Well, save for about half a dozen games about 15 years ago when I took an elbow in the chops and suffered my last concussion. But, I do have all of my own teeth...thankfully.


Have you ever tried a full shield? I remember they used to fog up really bad, but maybe the technology has improved? Or is the cage just the better way to go? Do you find the bars annoying?

johnnyshaka 02-11-2008 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidatelo (Post 1656543)
Have you ever tried a full shield? I remember they used to fog up really bad, but maybe the technology has improved? Or is the cage just the better way to go? Do you find the bars annoying?


I've never had a full shield for the exact reason you stated...fogging up. For the short time I went without a cage I had a half shield and even it fogged up like crazy...but that was 10 years ago...and like you said, I'm sure the technology has improved.

I'm 33 years old, so I grew up having to wear a cage. That's 25 years or so...I'd say I'm definitely use to it. Do I find the bars annoying?? Not at all, but I'm sure if you aren't use to it there would be an adjustment period. Once you get over the "pride" or "macho" factor of wearing a cage then I think adjusting to the bars will take no time whatsoever.

At my regular shinny game, I was the only one wearing a cage probably 5-10 years ago. Now, I'd say about at least a third of the guys either have cages or full shields. Funny thing is, most of the converts are older than me and never had to wear cages as a kid but are sick of sticks in the mouth...who knows.

Pumpy Tudors 02-11-2008 12:35 PM

Please educate a southern boy here. What's a "shinny" game? I imagine it's like a recreational game, but does anyone know why it's called "shinny"?

Logan 02-11-2008 12:45 PM

Pumpy to the rescue. I didn't wanna be that guy.

Dr. Sak 02-11-2008 12:46 PM

Oh by the way...yesterday at the Pens-Flyers game I got to sit in Ty Conklin's seats and after the game got to shake Mario Lemieux's hand.

Travis 02-11-2008 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors (Post 1656605)
Please educate a southern boy here. What's a "shinny" game? I imagine it's like a recreational game, but does anyone know why it's called "shinny"?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinny

Quote:

Shinny, generally believed to be a pre-cursor to ice hockey, was informal enough in its formative years that the pucks and sticks were often makeshift. During the Great Depression, for example, northern boys used tree branches or broomhandles as sticks, a tin can, a piece of wood, and even a frozen road apple (farm animal dropping) as a puck. Any object about the right size might serve as a puck. The name is derived from the Scottish game shinty and indeed shinny was a common name for one of shinty's many regional variations in Scotland. Shinny, a primarily Canadian term, is usually called scrimmage, pick-up hockey or RAT Hockey in the United States.

Some stuff in there I wasn't familiar with, good question.

Pumpy Tudors 02-11-2008 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 1656616)
Pumpy to the rescue. I didn't wanna be that guy.

Whenever there's something that I don't get about hockey, I can pretty much cover myself by saying "I'm from the south!"
Quote:

Originally Posted by bsak16 (Post 1656618)
Oh by the way...yesterday at the Pens-Flyers game I got to sit in Ty Conklin's seats and after the game got to shake Mario Lemieux's hand.

That is awesome. I considered trying to go (as we'd discussed in PM), but then I remembered that my bowling league was in action last night. Too bad the game didn't go your way, pal. :)

Fidatelo 02-11-2008 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka (Post 1656586)
I've never had a full shield for the exact reason you stated...fogging up. For the short time I went without a cage I had a half shield and even it fogged up like crazy...but that was 10 years ago...and like you said, I'm sure the technology has improved.

I'm 33 years old, so I grew up having to wear a cage. That's 25 years or so...I'd say I'm definitely use to it. Do I find the bars annoying?? Not at all, but I'm sure if you aren't use to it there would be an adjustment period. Once you get over the "pride" or "macho" factor of wearing a cage then I think adjusting to the bars will take no time whatsoever.

At my regular shinny game, I was the only one wearing a cage probably 5-10 years ago. Now, I'd say about at least a third of the guys either have cages or full shields. Funny thing is, most of the converts are older than me and never had to wear cages as a kid but are sick of sticks in the mouth...who knows.


Thanks for the info. My brother-in-law (who incidently is the one who put the puck in my face last month) has been trying to convince me to get a cage (he wears one). I suppose the major reason I haven't is definitely the 'pride' factor, which is really pretty dumb, but also I just think they look weird (even dumber). I think I'd get a shield right away if I knew it wouldn't fog up, but I don't want to waste the money only to move to a cage or back to my visor.

I don't find my visor fogs all that badly, although it has a couple times. I just a keep a towel on the bench and wipe it in the rare times I need to, but I don't see that being very easy with a full shield.

Decisions, decisions... :)

MikeVic 02-11-2008 01:23 PM

Frozen road apple. lol.

Maple Leafs 02-11-2008 01:26 PM

Hurricans trade Stillman and Commodore to the Sens for Corvo and Eaves.

Honolulu_Blue 02-11-2008 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs (Post 1656657)
Hurricans trade Stillman and Commodore to the Sens for Corvo and Eaves.


I like that trade for the Senators. Commodore is likely to be a more valuable defensemen in the playoffs than Corvo and Stillman is putting together a pretty solid offensive year.

johnnyshaka 02-11-2008 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidatelo (Post 1656640)
I suppose the major reason I haven't is definitely the 'pride' factor, which is really pretty dumb, but also I just think they look weird (even dumber).


Just so you don't think any less of me...my grill is all scratched up and looks pretty tough. As tough as a cage can look at least. :D

Wolfpack 02-11-2008 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs (Post 1656657)
Hurricans trade Stillman and Commodore to the Sens for Corvo and Eaves.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue (Post 1656669)
I like that trade for the Senators. Commodore is likely to be a more valuable defensemen in the playoffs than Corvo and Stillman is putting together a pretty solid offensive year.


I admit to feeling rather mixed about this. Commodore and Stillman were going to be FAs after this year, so perhaps Rutherford felt it was a longshot to keep either or both. Still, they made great contributions and Commodore was a fan favorite.

Corvo looks to be a good pickup for our lackluster PP, but we've been in need of better defense, not offense. Eaves, obviously, is a gamble. He's young, but he's been hurt, so it's unknown what we got with him.

This looks like a "sell" trade as JR probably figured there wasn't going to be any magic this year. However, given the craptacularity of the division, he didn't cripple the team so they couldn't have a chance at the playoffs and the valuable home gates that go with it.

Maple Leafs 02-11-2008 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack (Post 1656967)
Corvo looks to be a good pickup for our lackluster PP

This may be true, but in general Corvo is a terrible player. He's marginally decent offensively, but he's terrible defensively. Awful. The Leafs blueline thinks he's bad.

Wolfpack 02-11-2008 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs (Post 1656988)
This may be true, but in general Corvo is a terrible player. He's marginally decent offensively, but he's terrible defensively. Awful. The Leafs blueline thinks he's bad.


I wouldn't dispute that. Carolina hasn't had problems scoring this year (except in stretches including lately), but they've been horrid on defense. Curiously, the magic phrase that fans seem to think would be the cure is "puck-moving defenseman", so here he is, I suppose. I'd rather have a puck-stopping one at the moment. Then again, if he's more of an offensive-minded defenseman, then this probably fits into Laviolette's style more as he's definitely "best defense is a good offense" in philosphy.

Another consideration is that Matt Cullen really has not come back from that vicious hit he took against New York back in December. He has played in stretches, but has been out the last several games due to vision problems. Ostensibly, if Corvo is coming in for his puck-moving and power play abilities, then there is some justification to bringing him in in particular as a sub for Cullen on the power play. (It should however, also be noted, that we are also desperate for help on the PK as we're pretty rank there as an extension of our atrocious defense, so if he's as bad as you think he is, this isn't going to solve that problem....)

Chief Rum 02-12-2008 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue (Post 1656502)
While I don't think that one bad call determines an outcome of a game (save some exceptional circumstances), that was a very bad call.


Thought you might say that. And while I agree, the penalty you were on that gave you that opportunity was an equally bad call. As was calling goalie interference earlier in the game on us when we scored a goal--on the goalscorer as he carried the puck!

Sorry, that last was a bad call, but Wings fans should be happy the refs kept them in the game close enough for it to matter.

Chief Rum 02-12-2008 12:41 AM

BTW, just talking specifics of where that game stood with respect to the score. Largely the Wings outplayed the Ducks and deserved better, and there is little doubt the Wings are the best team right now. But since we both had goals waved off that shouldn't have been, I am thinking we're pretty even on that one.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:19 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.