*looks around the digital room we're all communicating in, all of which was predicted, shaped and encouraged by Neuromancer, and whistles as he walks away*

:)

Boo! You don't like my scifi/fantasy pick? :)

Would you agree that Tolkien probably spawned more alternate universes than any other writer?

In literature? Nope. I'd name at least one or two books which haven't been drafted yet that I'd point to before Tolkien. I mean heck -- swords and sorcery were around for a long time before he took his (admittedly great) whacks.

I know one of the books you are thinking of but I don't think it was expansive or as well-crafted as ME.

How well-crafted are you?

hahahahaha

Vote = ThunderingHERD :)

Ok, fine. Lol.

Yep. I have no clue what this is.


Well, what I meant was that he implied Frankenstein was a "wtf" compared to Neuromancer being "great".


Second Life was a direct creation based on another book that I won't mention until the draft is over. It could be said that it was inspired by Neuromancer, but it was a direct copy of a world in another book.

I'm having a hard time understanding the scoring scheme here. According to this logic if this were a painters draft thomas kinkade would beat nearly everyone.

is this what books are popular (or are still popular) in our american culture?

I'm pretty sure I know the book to which you refer, and am absolutely certain it was influenced by Gibson's work, and in particular Neuromancer.

If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, does it actually make a noise?

You're selecting what will make the "best team" when the voting occurs. If none (most) of the voters haven't heard of it, then, no, it's not a very good selection. How can you possibly score something well that you've never even heard of? Are you just supposed to say "Well, it's French, and people say it's good, it must be an awesome pick."?


Right. But Second Life is directly and deliberately crafted after that book. That's like saying that WoW was created because of LOTR. (well, maybe a little less indirect than that :) )

ditto. I know my other pick would have gone over better likely, and tbh I was equally as happy with it, but I was being stubborn. When I do my post-draft explanation of my team i'll make my case for "Romance." But really, how can you say that one of the books considered to be one of the 4 classics of chinese literature (which has a longer history than western civilization period) is not great literature? especially when you consider that it's 120 chapters and 800,000 words?

bro, just anticipating how a sizable voting population will vote (as evidence by previous drafts). One can play this solely to make a good personal list, or to prove how many English Lit classes one has taken, or to pander to the voters. There 10 categories and 10 participants. You and I can come up with 100 great books that are both popular/recognizable and good literature. Some of the picks here are one but not the other and they, among some voters, will not score as well as those choosing both.

okay...so i'm not up or anything?

I believe Axxon is up.

Hm I'll follow bucc and sab here with my leaders in each category:

Fiction: Maple Leafs (larrymcg421 2nd)
Short Story: Chief Rum (cartman second I guess, all the rest are pretty close together to me)
Poem: Warhammer (NoMyths/larrymcg tied for 2nd)
Fantasy/Sci Fi: cartman (st cronin 2nd)
Series: Cartman (Axxon 2nd)
Sports: Warhammer (cartman 2nd)
Childrens: Maple Leafs (DaddyTorgo 2nd)
Non-Fiction: Izulde (NoMyths 2nd)
Bio/Autobio: larrymcg (NoMyths 2nd)
History: St Cronin (Maple Leafs 2nd)


there are a few categories here where I really don't think there are any bad picks, or where its really hard to blow people away with a great pick but possible to screw up w/ a bad pick. The poem category I think is a good example of this. Warhammer is an easy first in my eyes, and the great works by Dante and Milton that have held up for centuries stand out a bit, but all the picks are good quality picks and the rest aren't *that* far behind.

Fantasy/Sci-Fi stands out to me as a category in which no one has screwed up. That probably says a lot about the demographic on this - and all - internet boards :)

ok, got it. seems there is a tension here between the author who wrote about a topic very successfully and the first author who wrote well on the topic and inspired all the rest.

But that is also up to the person who makes the list to give the reason why. That is part of the reason why I have been giving reasons for all my picks.

Huh?

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem - The Canterbury Tales - Jeoffrey Chaucer
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's -
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

This classic collection of tales are fun to read and quite varied. Definitely ahead of his time and they still hold up and have been told countless times.

This was my third choice after my first in Poetry. My second is actually still out there.

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's - 8,1 Where the Sidewalk Ends - Shel Silverstein
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

Probably the best poet of our time, Shel wrote poems for both kids and adults and Where the Sidewalk Ends is one that's made for kids and equally enjoyed by adults. Everybody finds something to enjoy when reading Shel Silverstein and he certainly fits with his peers in this category.

The Canterbury Tales was one of the poems I was thinking about earlier (the one I'd rank higher is still out there). Nice pick.

Really? I read it when I was a kid, like maybe 7 or 8 and I know a lot of other Americans who read it when they were kids, too.

1. Fiction - 2.2 Lolita - Vladimir Nabokov
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem - 1.9 "The Waste Land" - T.S. Eliot
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction - A Game of Thrones - George R.R. Martin
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) - 3.9 The Musketeers Saga - The Three Musketeers, Twenty Years After, Le Vicomte de Bragelonne, Louise de la Valliere, The Man in the Iron Mask - Alexandre Dumas
6. Sport Related - 5.9 North Dallas Forty - Peter Gent
7. Children's - 7.9 The Little Prince - Antonie de Sainte Expury
8. Non-Fiction - 4.2 The Art of War - Sun Tzu
9. Biography/Autobiography - 6.2. Night - Elie Wiesel
10. History

There are few contemporary sci-fi or fantasy books that fall into the realm of literature, but A Game of Thrones certainly qualifies. Epic in scope, with brilliant characters and a crackling political storyline, it stands among the titans of the fantasy genre despite its relative newness.

Dang it! I was going to use The Giving Tree!

Terrific pick. I considered this one as well.

This is another one I considered for this category, but didn't want to overload on poetry, if that makes any sense.

Hmm, I feel that no one book from this series is a good pick, because it is a never ending story. Plot points are wrapped, but usually far more have been opened up (thus the frustration with Martin's glacial pace of writing). This would have been better as a series, but tough to take there, too, because it is incomplete.

SO with Bucc here - and I know Children's lit pretty well living with a Kindergarten teacher who majored in reading for her Master's degree.

Wait a sec...you can major in reading? Shit, I knew I missed my calling.

Well looks like I blew the Children's Lit pick, then. I seriously thought lots of people had read The Little Prince as kids.

A Song of Ice and Fire definitely would've been stronger as a series pick, and if I had to single one out, I think I would've gone for A Storm of Swords. In any case, I'm a big GRRM fan, so even with the previous complaints that pick scores big points with me.

I was going to post the same thing before you did. This is one of very few series for me that I think is HURT by taking one book rather than the series. This isn't like Dune or Ender's game where the 1st book holds up on it's own and is dramatically better than the rest - you really can't hold up Game of Thrones as an individual work imo.

And with that being said - the Storm of Swords may have been my top choice for series with only a possible negative being that it is not done.

Hah. Reading Education to become a Reading Specialist.

I'll ask her about it tomorrow and maybe she knows, but in the literally 100's of childrens' book in this house I have never seen that book.

Darn and here I thought they were good picks.

FWIW, when taking one book from a series, I generally take the first one by default, because it's the one that sets up the story and action... and later books may not be fully understood without the context of that first book.

You have to stop thinking that your childhood and college years were like anyone else. :)

I've read The Little Prince, didn't think it was any good.

I think that Izulde should be required to wear a wristband with this quote.

Same here. Must have read or was read 100+ books as a child, then into the 70s with my youngest brother and then the 90s with my son.

FYI: The Canterbury Tales can suck it.

Nice pick, tho.

I want to add to this that I don't think its as bad a pick as the vocal peanut gallery is saying.

LOL

...except for not being anywhere close to it. :)

He is a very popular children's poet, though, that's for certain.

The little prince is OK but my #1 childrens book is still around.

Mine is too, but objectively it may be more a personal pick vs. a great all-around pick (although certainly no slouch).

Touche`!

I guess I should've gone with one of my other picks for Children's Lit, then. One in particular I really wish I'd have taken instead now, as it's one of my favorites... and now that I'm re-reading The Little Prince... it really isn't as good as I remember it. :(

Oh well, live and learn.

Being curious, I looked at the best-selling children's books of all time (paperbook and hardcover) and not counting Potter, 8 of the top 10 in both categories are still available. Seuss would have been my pick if I were playing but my second choice is available. When I think of children's book, I think of books that a young child can relate to in a memorable way (much like Seuss and some of the Grimm stories had when I was a child). This would rule out quasi-children's literature that are more suited for adults (including Potter).

I'll have to look at that list - especially now that I know (via PM since neither of us is playing) that Lathum and I have the same book in mind.

DON'T BE THAT GUY!!!!

OK. Seriously. What part of "Poem" is so hard to understand?

Fiction or non-fiction?

Sorry - I'm clean now, right?

You don't know how close you were.

:D

Yeah - in hindsight I agree, that's why I deleted it ;).

I might have had to jump in my car, drive out there and administer a beat down. Knowing my luck, it would end up with LS wondering why he got bum-rushed.

:D

and yet you're hating on my Grimm pick?

So... I know I've been harsh on Axxon, but.. from wiki:


So outside of even the collection vs. poem thing - according to this, part if it isn't even a poem?

Are you refering to The Canterbury Tales? Because if The Illiad, The Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost, etc. all are considered one poem....

In Canada, virtually every kid has to read that book for school.

In french.

So... kiss the Canadian vote goodbye.

I don't recall that I did.

Ugh, I'm -really- regretting the pick now.... especially since I had a lot of other really good ones in reserve. :(

I agree, The Canterbury Tales actually ARE one poem. The title doesn't refer to multiple poems, but to the subject OF the poem - the tales the travelers tell.

Man, the stupid Children's pick I made probably just cost me any chance I had at winning.

And I had a freaking long list of other quality titles! It was one of my deepest categories! :(

Cowboy up.

Yeah I know... it just... it seriously depresses me. The George R.R. Martin criticism doesn't bother me, because I was running really low in that category.

But the Children's Lit one... I've got at least 5 or 6 other titles that I think about it more, I both enjoyed more and would've received a lot better reception.

I hosed my own draft strategy and should've just gone with what I was originally going to take for Children's picks

fair nuff

Getting ready to pick...

Yes, I'm referring to the Canterbury Tales and Torgo's picks.. Canterbury, as I've always understood it, is a collection of stories. Some of which are poems, some of which are not. I have always been taught that the others are one story.

Oh, and I may not get to updating the main list until the morning.. I'm working on a paper for class.. I can take the occasional break to be a jerk in here, but I'm not up to updating the lists right now. This thing has me in a bad mood. :)

I narrowed my pick down to one poem within the book. I don't see an issue with letting me do that...not like I changed books.

The Canterbury Tales are also one poem, according to me.

I also consider The Canterbury Tales to be one poem.

Not really. It's not just a bunch of poems. The charaters interrupt the tales, they talk to each other between the tales, etc. and it's told from the first person (Chaucer himself is travelling with the pilgrims) I definitely wouldn't describe it as just a "collection of stories".

But I guess it wouldn't technically be an epic poem either, because one tale he tells in prose (because one of the characters compared Chaucer's ability to rhyme to a turd) and the last tale told by the Parson is a sermon.

Sorry, at first you did not, despite the specific label of the category. :)




I stand corrected.

I will do as Izulde did last night and blame it on a bad mood. :)

So, you guys think I have any shot at winning this still, or am I sunk?

1. Fiction - 1.8 The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Mark Twain
2. Single Short Story - 5.8 The Legend of Sleepy Hollow, Washington Irving
3. Poem - 2.3 Paradise Lost, John Milton
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction - 7.8 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Jules Verne
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) -
6. Sport Related
7. Children's - 6.3 The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, L Frank Baum
8. Non-Fiction - 4.3 Communist Manifesto, Karl Marx
9. Biography/Autobiography - 3.8 Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler
10. History - 8.3 The Histories of Herodotus, Herodotus

Just like you can't do sci-fi without Jules Verne, you just can't do History without Herodotus. He started it all, and is often referred to as the father of history. Without him, we would know alot less about the world.

From wiki:

I think you have at least as good a chance as me.

Damn! That was going to be my History pick.

That puts larry on top of 2 of the 3 non-fiction catagories (for now...)

Herodotus might be the one who started writing histories, but Gibbon wrote the first modern history. With his magnus opus, he not only touched on a subject that is still debated to this day. His work in researching the subject is still widely used as a secondary source for subsequent works on the subject. If you do a search on "Rise and Fall of" and "The Decline and Fall of" you will see a large number of works that all echo Gibbon's historic work. His work has even touched sci-fi as Asimov was "cribbin' from Gibbon" when he wrote his famous Foundation series.

My pick for history is The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon.

Fiction - 3.7 Catch-22 by Joseph Heller
Single Short Story - 5.7 Flowers for Algernon by Daniel Keyes
Poem - 1.7 The Iliad - Homer
Fantasy/Science Fiction - 7.7 Frankenstein by Mary Shelley
Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) - 2.4 The Cronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis
Sport Related 4.4 Ball Four by Jim Bouton
Children's
Non-Fiction
Biography/Autobiography - 6.4 Profiles in Courage by John F. Kennedy
History - 8.4 The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon

That didn't last long. Warhammer leads in History now.

I was looking at it, but there are so many other top notch history books that I put the category off. I actually like my pick a bit more because people still actually read mine. :D

Woot!

In response to sab's post.

And that was my backup pick. *sigh* I'm going to get killed in this category, I think.

I'm going to have to come with a real balla short story to have any hope, I suspect.

I can give you some of my backups in history.

Hey! I read Herodotus....

Wow, History just got completely blown up. Great picks guys.

Now that my top 2 History picks are taken, it'll be tough to crack. You still lead my Non-Fiction, have a top Series, so you aren't sunk yet. A solid History and a homerun in Short Story will give you a really good shot.

That'd be tampering, unfort. :) I do have one last option on my board that may or may not be around the next time I pick.

Thanks :)

I think I can get the solid History pick if the one I'm eyeing falls to me. Short story's going to be a lot tougher to find a homerun on that'll have broad appeal, but I'm sure I'll come up with something.

OK, so you're in the same category as me then... :D

Major, major points for snagging this so late IMO. I don't think there's anyway to top Dr Seuss but getting this in the 8th round is a massive steal.

The only problem with children's books is that I think many of our votes are going to be based upon what we read as children. Don't get me wrong, I love the Shel Silverstein pick, but I think there are plenty of other great choices out there.

It is the only children's book I own. I have read it as an adult and it holds up. I never actually owned it as a child, but whenever it was read in school I thought it was fantasitc. (Hm. My house has 1 children's book. My brother's has hundreds. We have 0 children between us. Gotta balance things out somehow. )

I've never heard of Shel Silverstein or Where the Sidewalk Ends.

Is hti sa joke because of the Izulde pick? Or is it because it isn't popular in Australia?